The 17 Ray Sun Disc
I was trying to get some information about the symbolic relevance of the Egyptian 17 ray sun disc. I read Madame Blavatsky quote this symbol as being incredibly important, but could find none of her writings describing its significance. Furthermore, any Google search I did came up empty. Does anyone have any insights as to what Blavatsky was referring to?
Replies to This Discussion
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ModeratorPermalink Reply by John on -
Perhaps it is the Aten
There appears to be some variants
may be a 17 and a 14 ray
I am unsure if the above is what you want.
John
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Permalink Reply by Darren Thomas Grundey on
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Thank you John and Jessica both for your replies...
My question as to the significance of the 17 ray sun disc is the result of having previously read the Blavatsky letter/link and wanting to know more information about it. It is interesting to me, Jessica, that you decided to include the excerpt from S.D vol. 2 p.22- 25 Stanza 1 you did (could you clarify this source?) since my interest in this particular symbol is related to a Logos-based phenomenon I am researching and otherwise trying to prove. What was it about what you were reading that made the intuitive connection for you?
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ModeratorPermalink Reply by Deb on -
I could not begin to guess whether this has any relevance to topic, but it was interesting to me that in astrology, 17 degrees distance from the sun is significant, both astrologically and astronomically.
I would be speculating entirely as to whether ancient astrologers of Central American or even Egyptian cultures used "degrees" as an astrological or astronomical measurement; however, there is a continuum of astrological knowledge and practice, particularly with respect to celestial measurements, that dates back certainly as far as Babylonia, Chaldea, ancient Egypt, that informs our Western astrology today, and of course there is the Vedic system of India, and even though the systems developed differently, there are some basics that they both share.
In astrology this distance from the Sun has significance. From 8.5 to 17 degrees out from the (celestial) longitudinal position of the sun is called being "under the beams", and when closer (0 - 8.5 degrees) is called combustion. Looking away from the astrological chart and up into the sky, planets that are within this range are obscured from our sight by the bright light of the sun. So 17 degrees seems to be the "reach" or size of the solar orb from an astrological/astronomical perspective, remembering that it was only quite recently, historically speaking, the the division between astrology and astronomy happened.
There is also another measurement that uses the number 17, and that is called Cazimi, or in the heart of the sun. That is when a planet is within 17 minutes (60 minutes in one degree) of a perfect conjunction with the position of the sun. I'm not really sure why 17 minutes is the "magic number" here that indicates the condition of Cazimi.
I really have no idea if there is any connection or significance, but these are certainly curious coincidences! Especially since there was the presence of a crescent moon, too. Perchance this measurement (17 degrees) of distance was a "solar fact" and giving the sun 17 rays was a way of conveying that or including the fact in such representations. It's interesting to speculate.
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ModeratorPermalink Reply by Deb on -
Hi Jessica;
I am not an astronomer, and I know only a little about numerology in theory and in practice, which is slightly odd as it seems to be the branch of New Age study that has escaped my lens. LOL
I have studied astrology for years, both formally and self-taught. I don't do it professionally. At this point, it's just an interest of mine, but I read and keep up with the astrological community and wish I had more time to devote to it. Maybe soon. I studied Traditional/Classical Astrology with a teacher some years ago, based on astrology as it was practiced around the year 1647 in Britain.
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ModeratorPermalink Reply by Deb on -
Sure. Send me the details in a private message or we can chat about if you wish.
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Great to be talking with you about this, Jessica. So the Logos I seem to have discovered reveals itself in symbolic archetypes associated with real phenomenon associated with the state of Ohio. My interest in the 17 ray sun disc has to do with the fact that Ohio was the 17th state to be adopted into the union of the United States. The profound relationship with the #17 between Ohio and the Egyptian Sun disc becomes more obvious when we take a look at Ohio's state logo. For if you compare Ohio's state logo with the design of the Egyptian rising sun motif, you will find them to be practically identical; and although the rising sun design finds expression in many state logos, it finds its closest representation in Ohio's. Yet another Ohio tie to the Egyptian sun disc/logos can be found in Ohio's state flag. But before we discuss what that correlation is we first need to recognize that Ohio's state flag is a singularity. And by singularity I mean that out of all the 50 state flags Ohio's is the only flag that is a two pronged burgee and not a single pronged penant. This peculiar or anomalous character singles out the flag as being somehow sign-ficant, meaning an icon sign or archetype of some sort. It is in this way that the pattern of the Logos reveals itself, in factual singularities and not by some randomness of design; these facts are self-selected and thus self-identified as being part of the pattern. The sign-ificance of the Ohio state flag singularity is in effect an indication that a sign or symbol is in need of hermenuetical interpretation. And what we find in the case of Ohio's state flag is the design of a triangle with a dot in the middle (i.e. a reference to the Eye of Providence). What's more, the triangle design is itself is a singularity, in that no other state flag displays such a design element. A strange fact, indeed, but one related to what in Chaos Theory they call a Strange Attractor Pattern – the operative word here being pattern, since this pattern more or less defines the Logos. This Eye of Providence, Three in One, Tri-Unity symbolism is reinforced by yet another singularity. Out of all 50 states very few have three cities with more than 500,000 people living in each one. Out of those states that do, Ohio is the only one in which all three of the cities begin with the same letter – the letter "c," the first letter of Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati. Ohioans refer to these three cities as the "3C's" (a highway called the 3C highway connects them together). The Ohio 3C symbolism ties back into the Chriastian notion of the "3C" solar Logos, related as it is to Christ the Father, Christ the Son and Christ the Holy Spirit/Mother. What makes all this really fascinating is that the most famous icon/archetype from Cleveland right now is LeBron "King James," (recall Nike's "Second Coming" ad campaign for King James from a couple years back); Cincinnati is know as the "Queen City" (a title dubbed by Henry Words-worth, keeping in mind the term logos in Greek means "word"); and the city of Columbus is named after the Christ, CHRIST-opher Columbus. So built into the symbolism of Ohio's 3Cs is a recapitulation of the Father. Mother Son trinity! What's even more unbelievable is that 2012 marked the year of Columbus' bicentennial, making 2012 the year of a CHRIST rebirth celebration (this fact is a singularity as well since of all the 50 states Ohio's capitol city is the only one celabrating its bicentennial in 2012). There is so much more to this but I've certainly written enough for one post. If you have any feedback I'd love to hear your thoughts!
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Wow!!! Hey, Jessica, nice to have made contact with you. I certainly know what you mean when you say there is a lack of outreach from others with similar interests. You are definitely a first for me:) Thanks for the reply.
Picking up on the 17 to 8 numerology... it most definitely has to do with cycles of time. From what I have come across our calendar system seems to be divided into eight equal parts; two crosses set at 45 degrees to each other, with the first cross marking the four solstice and equinox dates and the second cross marking various others days of celebration in between. This relationship ties into the Logos in several ways. The first is geometrical and links up with the patented Block "O" of the OSU logo – with the patent here being a signifier of the singular nature singularity. So we find in the eight-sided Block "O" of the OSU logo an elongated version of an octagon; an octagon being the shape made by superimposing two squares on top of one another, offset at 45 degrees; with the two square octagon and two cross calendar a representation of the same archetype. In terms of symbolism, Ohio, Columbus, and the Ohio State University are interchangeable – reminds me of Ohio's role in the Presidential election – in pop culture think of the recent Ides of March film – and OSU's football team, currently undefeated and in the national spotlight (the singularities here: the number of presidents from Ohio is second only to Virginia and the OSU football program being the largest in the country – battleground state and football's grid iron being the similar metaphor. The other singularity associated with OSU is the fact that it is the largest land grant college with the largest student body in the nation. I bring these facts up because as singularities they indicate their sign-ficance as signs within the Logos. In fact, the football symbolism comes back again and again – football was invented in Akron, Ohio, and the Cleveland Browns was the first NFL team – which I believe has links to the fact that the foot of the constellation Ophiuchus (The Serpent Bearer) will be tip-toeing on the galactic core on 12.21.2012. More on that later... (some corroboration would be helpful with this fact).
This time symbolism related to the number eight is also indicated by the infinity sign, which is the same number eight rotated on its side by 45 degrees. Related to the #8/infinity sign is the #0/Block "O"/Oroboros, that symbol of the snake swallowing its own tail. As both a beginning and ending, it reminds me of the fact that the word Ohio starts and ends with the letter O; with the first two letters "O-H" tied to the first two letters of OHm, another sign related to the #0/oroboros/primordial womb of creation. The Ohio singularity being explored with the word Ohio has to do with the fact that out of all 50 states, only three states are spelled with four letters; and out of those three only Ohio has three letters, with a fourth that repeats. This fact has a relationship to the Hebrew tetragrammaton, YHVH, or the four-lettered name of God. That relationship needs to be explained in greater detail, but for now its enough just to mention a correspondence does indeed exist.Getting back to the Oroboros, the Ohio singularity it ties to is the Great Serpent Mound, the largest snake effigy in the world. (This symbol is another one that requires too much attention to detail here now – but I will say that it too ties into Winter Solstice 2012, since part of its function is as a solstice and equinox calendar.)
Curiously you mention the number five, too. The number five is important because it ties into the pentagram, or the pentalfa, which is the sign of the terrestrial "man" or superman (with superman, the original superhero icon/archetype being be the brainchild of two kids from the Cleveland, Ohio suburbs). The number five also ties into Ohio's state tree, since the Buck-EYE leaf has five shoots (and looks a lot like a pot leaf); the associative singularity being tied to the fact that the Buck-EYE, as the state's icon, is the only state logo that is a SEED. The number five also reminds me of a hand; and a hand is what we use to gesture to someone to say hello; with the word "HI" being found hidden in the middle of the word Ohio. That Logos certainly has a funny sense of humor!
As far as the two pronged design for the state flag goes, the only thing I ever came across that mentioned anything about that was a reference to the letters "MM" the pattern makes. And from that reference they tied it to Mary Magdelene, but it could also stand for Mother Mary. The Mary connection makes a little more sense since in downtown Columbus there is a replica of the Santa Maria (translated as Saint Mary) and in Windsor, Ohio there is the Lady of Guadalupe, touted as being the world's largest statue of Mary – making it a singularity. What's telling about the Santa Maria is the fact that it is docked off the Broad Street Bridge, with Broad St. being the same road as Route 40 – with the number 40 in Hebrew designating the letter Mem (meaning water); which in Kabala represents the Water of Creation and one of the three Mother Letters of the alphabet. Although the Mary Magdelene archetype makes sense too since there are a great number of porn stars from the state, including an early icon named Tracie Lords! The connection here being the XXX and the CROSS-roads metaphor. However, even the roadside triple cross you see posted along highways supposedly has roots to Ohio.
As far as the Kaos-Theos-Kamas is concerned, I am not familiar with these terms, at least not in connection with one another. Theos is a word for God, I believe. Could you help me understand the other two words? And their relationship?
Hope I'm not overwhelming you with this; it's hard to keep it all straight. However, the nonlinear quality of this matrix is another telltale sign of its chaotic/fractal structure. More on that later as well...
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And if you feel more comfortable sharing some of your thoughts in private, send a note to my inbox. I'm a little shy going into too much detail myself;)
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