Comment

Comment by Michael Simon on December 9, 2011 at 10:24pm

Who does the brainwashing? Are there villains, or do I brainwash Me(via fear/attachment)?

Regarding selfishness John, I see this differently (not correctly, nor better; differently). If one is raped, should she not complain because another's executed? If my wife is punched in the head, should I not defend because others are shot in the head? If my wife is hit in the head today I will, I imagine experience fear - momentarily - then I will be moved to do what I can, and not moved to do what I cannot, but will likely not 1) compare her 'attack' to others, nor will I 2) suffer for long due to non attachment.

Attachment to comparison, money, people etc - at root it's attachment (to security/life), at root it's fighting or fleeing (what is perceived as death).

Feeding the 'world' solved what? It makes 'Me' feel good, it gives 'Me' security to know I can eat my preferred food without guilt. Sometimes service to others and to the 'world' does not look like 'giving more,' sometimes it looks like 'letting go' of 'Me.'

"The dead will bury their dead." - Christ
"All life is suffering." - Buddha
"All life is flux." - Aristotle
"I know that I don't know." - Socrates

I don't think it's important for anyone to realize anything. I think everyone sees just fine, sees what each is given to see. Which is why I see everything you expressed is 'right,' as it's what you see. I see differently, but I see you're right. How can 'Americans,' let alone a group of so-called 'theosophists,' agree on anything? Why should we? Will we be 'more secure' if we do, will we be 'better off?' Or will we...'feel' better?

There is a season for all things. This includes 'uproar,' it includes 'greed,' it includes 'rape,' 'execution,''punches to the head,' and, even, surrender (also known as 'hopelessness,' also known as 'I don't know,'), which, survived, reveals to the individual the Great Security he has so long sought, suffers for, and fought for, under the delusion that it could only be attained by winning something (as if Truth can be had).

Comment by Martin Euser on December 9, 2011 at 6:24pm

@Jon: true, it is not all about Americans. I am European, BTW, and look upon Western values with a critical eye. We have no fair trade with Africa, for example.

My posting is about a couple of things: American economy is in a rut. This has everything to do with the Wall Street type of economics that is dealt with in chapters two and three in David's book. Not producing enough of real value. In Europe there are of course many problems too, as is the case elsewhere.

Another related point is the extreme brainwashing that has been going on for decades and even centuries in the West about certain values: extreme individualism, greed, capitalism (in contradistinction from fair market economy), etc., etc. There is a separate discussion on Buddhist economics, and another one on What's your story? Plenty of opportunity for members to unfold their ideas on fair economy, social justice, care for environment, meaningful work and the like.

I hope members will take the opportunity to express themselves on these issues.

Comment by Martin Euser on December 9, 2011 at 4:48am

46 millions of Americans live on food stamps today, and the number seems rising. That's one out of six! While quite a few of the world's citizens gets the idea of voluntary simplicity (it's a movement since long), others may be forced into living a very sober life indeed. 

Yes, we have been brainwashed into believing that endless economic growth is the way forward, including all the many gadgets that people think they need. Luckily, peak cheap oil will force us to develop more local economies. In a couple of years we may see big shifts occurring in thinking. A forced awakening to the realities of life?

Comment by andrasnm on December 8, 2011 at 5:19pm

Things are bad. For older people as well as for the young. When searching for directions you must consider a skill and the possibility of self-employment. The only true viable venue for entrepreneurship (on a shoestring) is joining forces with a big corporate entity.
These big corporation, loath them or love them, are in need for partners such as content providers (in case of online business), independent contractors (as IT, Web or professional skills (such as plumbing or security/cable/SatTV installers)
Being truly independent is harder than ever, but instead for asking for a fat paycheck(good luck with that!) and security (that is non-existent anyway) you might want to reconsider and become a partner and see you wallet getting fatter.

Comment by Michael Simon on December 4, 2011 at 1:30pm

Hannes - nice. ;) I can't speak for others, but I am quite the schemer, and enjoy pyramids, provided they are upside down (so that the "king" is a "trusted servant" rather than an "untrustworthy ruler").

Comment by Hannes Frischat on December 4, 2011 at 12:40pm

OK, I have ordered the Korten book and will look into it at time. The mails I seem to get daily from this group feel a bit like the ones from pyramid schemes but I hope that is just a preliminary impression. Will get back when gone to the bottom ground of the book, thanks for the suggestion.

Comment by Martin Euser on November 20, 2011 at 3:30pm

In the Pages panel to the right, you will see the work plan for this group and idea behind it.

Comment by Capt. Anand Kumar on November 19, 2011 at 8:49pm

Thank You so much Martin for initiating this. Hope you have recovered from ailments fully. Looking forward to lively discussions and learning with great anticipation.

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