Giving Ones Self Over to God
The individual cannot be perfect until he has surrendered all he now calls himself to the divine Being. So also, until mankind gives all it has to God, never shall there be a perfected society.
-- Sri Aurobindo
Interesting comment. How does this feel to you? Is this something you can relate to and why or why not?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hari Menon on
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Big problem Joe , Mahyogi Aurobindo uses the word God everywhere in his writings which are synonymous with the self . brahman,om etc as an absolute principle or an absolute thought . Not as a personal god - he uses the word divine in its entirety as is meant by the ancient Greeks and not as it comes out to our limited understanding through english translations . It makes total sense to me not because I have not read Aurobindo - but by what I have not read . I do not have the reply for a why not , but can attempt at a why .
The primary question that confronts an individual who is ''striving'' for emancipation is - How can I sacrifice ?.What exactly is sacrifice of the intellect or mind or ego - if I do not know what these are then what on earth or how can I sacrifice ?. And to whom ? even a proper god is unknown to me !!.
I will attempt an assay into this most vigorously contented aspect of sacrifice . (subtle only )
The aspirant when he gets an inner urge to move in a metaphysical direction in his life (it may come at any time and cloaked as any event that makes them turn on a quest inwards -) it is the rise of discrimination in a person and has to be seen as such - and what does this inner movement signify (inner or higher craving) - it signifies that the person has attained a stage where he is ripe for the teachings in the knowledge of ''ability to discriminate between what is real and what is unreal " or what is true and what is untrue or in what is knowledge and right knowledge.
Now very few see the initial urge or movement towards the infinite as such(which has actually come from them selves ).
Another thing is when confronted with the imperious command of Sacrifice by all and sundry who are knowledgeable , it becomes a vicious circle - whom to sacrifice to ? if to god then it is a vicious circle - already the urge is interpreted as a ''need to know god'' - and one cannot sacrifice to someone he does not know . Another thing that is stranger is where is the mind and intellect ? god does not require my car or money - he wants my mind and intellect and desires - very strange
neither do I know whom to sacrifice (ie hand over my mind and intellect and ego and desires and life breath) nor how to locate these within me ascertain their ambit and then chop them out of myself and give to another indistinct entity !.
Some leave their worldly possessions , some give them away , another does neither and then struggles within himself with guilt at having not sacrificed, another acts impersonal to everyone and gets a bad name in society while practicing sacrifice , some practice humility, another imagines universal love and tries to spread it , Some others ''Find'' an embodied person to whom they can physically give up ven their bodies !, another bunch of deluded people imagine and live with masters and hand over their feelings and thoughts and lives to them , another one has extreme love and fauth in a deiety or angel or saint and lives for them and wastes a good liveable life in the name of Faith , many other tell anecdotes and childrens tales and live unselfishly - but all these live in delusion and a life of total worthless life consoling themselves metaphysically . Austerities so inhuman to even the soul within oneself, privation and diffidence brought on by some small onset of knowledge or experience removing them even further away from society , people and the truth . Art of living, yoga, surya yoga (yoga of the sun !!), Kriya (without understanding what kriya is) Karma , Reike , Chakras, Kundalini, Meditations, Tao Chi, Shamanism , Nature Healing, Attunement to nature , engaging and disengaging will, dialogues between people and religions, acts of contrition and philanthropy, public atonements, whipping oneself and running through the streets, imapaling oneself, coal walking , ecstacy and dancing, chanting and singing , , groups and societies , credited masters and discredited ones by the passage of time . Music , narcotics anything to sacrifice - we no longer know the means ends aim or meaning these days .
(I am having fun - this is a fun question you have asked ) Coming back to the point .
In sacrifice (for liberation only not consumerism ) - One has to think deeply about that most wonderful of phenomena that we are all subject to - Death .How it in one single moment negates a person completely his pride in body , his possessions , all worldly thoughts and efforts he had and thought for every living moment of his life , his relatives , country world all vanish in that one great Karma in which he is himself the greatest protagonist yet cannot enjoy his act in the scene - he acts for others sincerely and has no hand in it yet has everything to do with it . The ephemeral nature of all his actions and efforts so like a morning mist being dissipated by the first warm sun rays , meaning nothing to the infinite .Even his knowledge of worldly things are of no use , his great pride or her great pride in being helen of troy or his of a hercules does not follow him on dying even the pride he had to his physical appendages as to length , colour m size nothing follows him (or her). - nobody is there to follow and nobody is there to lead .
Any person who always meditates on death will become indifferent naturally to all that has been seen or heard in the world even whilst living and continuing to have a house, wife car ,children etc . He knows the utter futlity in anger and in making enemies - he learns to treat everyone he meets as a long lost friend once known before , forgotten over lives and now crossing paths - so why fight ? he learns manliness in walking away from aggression and agressors without fear , he learns to disregard every rule and enjoys freedom and peace , he justifies no action to anyone , he is unaccountable for he has SACRIFICED agency (or the sense of doership and enjoyership) - he knows perfectly well that he does not do anything even whilst doing - even when he eats , grasps with his hands , walks ,and talks he knows that he does nothing .
This is how the field has to be cultivated and quickly instead of dwelling on the wayside on worthless knowledge that will not accompany one - in time there WILL be a shift in the ''I'' sense one has detached attachment and no karmas stick to him . Meditation is our natural state it is not something to be attained - everything is taken over by the subconscious and even works when one is asleep . Over time absolute non duality may be experienced and lived in . This is the way of knowledge and sacrifice by knowledge . It has to be done casually without exerting and by meditating (ie,thinking) on death from time to time - it is the elixir that will open higher truths - but never get frustrated , have tremendous patience , never ever consider (in case of frustration at non progress) harming yourself bodily since the reasoning is death is inevitable there is no need to make any effort to bring it about !!. No need to assume instruments and acts to finish off frustration . ..................Thanatology is not the same as the death I was talking about - herein lies the difference , thanatology may be taken as being same provided it is an aid to liberation !!! not the various ways of dying , it need not be enquired into - it will happen in any case so be still . (this is the easiest way of sacrifice through wisdom ) May all enjoy a peaceful settling into the soul.
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ModeratorPermalink Reply by John on -
This is a sacrifice/surrender of one's ego/self towards union with the Divine. God/Being is not meant by SA as an individual (western abrahamic concept). SA's use of the term is often fluid... Divine is a good interpretation here.
Supramental consciousness works also. We need more enlightened individuals within society to even approach a perfected one (society).
I relate to it pretty easily. (sheesh - the quote sounds like something I'd post in daily Meditations <G>)
That is my two cents...
JohnI think Hari rather agrees, or I agree with Hari some also.
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Yes John you are correct - supramental consciousness is needed other wise it will be only an intellectual exercise - I have a term for that - "Intellectual Gymnastics'' nothing much is gained without SC also.
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Permalink Reply by Capt. Anand Kumar on
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This is a great question to ask ourselves. Total surrender here would perhaps mean disconnecting from the knowledge system that drive the actions of a person.
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Exactly !!!! Bingo Captain
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ModeratorPermalink Reply by John on -
(I prefer to use the term Supramental consciousness as the union with the divine)
The action of Union, leading to the Supramental, must be a goal, but then the other goal must be developed as well. This is active expansion of the divine into and out through reality to create the awareness of/or a Supraphysical Union.
This is the concept/goal that the 21st century has and is developing. The Divine, The Mind, the Physical -- All must be one, in Union.
Sri Aurobindo discusses this in his works. Today we have other terms - like Bi-directional spirituality. A new term that is being spread as if it were some new idea.
so - how does the quote make me "feel"? It is a sobering need to harmonize the mind and also stay attached in reality. It is always that last piece (staying attached/aware in reality) where many theosophies fail. To create a Grand Unified Esotericism is a synthesis that can encumber much and leave little room for the world and humanity. Those two most important pieces.Completion of the above is the step towards societal perfection as referred to in the above quote.
John
(Standard Science is ahead of theosophists so far as I can tell. Science has evolved out of Reductionism, Materialism, and is exploring emergence, consciousness, existence etc., etc. Theosophists need to update their science awareness to at least include most mainstream modern ideas).
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John you are absolutly correct in your views here - many people are frightened of receiving knowledge or aiming for the identity position vis a vis the divine or infinite (as you prefer ) for fear that they will lose all worldliness and forget duties - they unnecessarily fantasize of how life is without an ego or being able to will or other things - Life in the intutive mode does away with a lot of unwanted stuff that we carry around as knowledge - and intuition is not just a small thing - it also give insight into higher workings - yes I think a good addition to your post would be the Captains above post - both have to be read in tandem .
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Permalink Reply by MANLEO on
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Jessica
Excellent ! " I AM THAT I AM" is that needed to develop in human race. Total surrender will come only after attaining great knowledge ( which can not be practiced still we read books) and finally gives up, with out knowing the truth of our birth ( from first breath to the last breath) he then says surrender your self to the god as the Gnana is only to write books and speech. The knowledge has to be churned ( as milk to butter) thus transforming the normal human to super human ( GOD).
I feel every human know the truth, still we donot follow the same ( Maya). Human brain knows most of the things we discuss ( forget for some time about atma, astral etheric vital bodies etc.,) still we can not follow.
Intellectualism is more for discussion , argument etc., You can see great people like Aravindo , Swami rama, ramakrishna, Ramana etc., in their last years they did not speak , they had gone more in to self search . In course we need to do the same.
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Dear Erica,
It depends , one cannot always insist that another persons definition of God should be in such and such a manner . If you go by the Lexicon everything collapses , not everyone will use the word god in the same manner . If you are not happy with an absolute conception of the word - you are perfectly well in accepting a more manifest version . We can never say categorically that such and such a state should be of God - How each person uses the word is according to his internal state . Amongst many insights into the nature of god , the Bhagavad Gita very plainly says the following :
'' I exist as an IDEA within everyone , but really speaking neither am I in them nor they in me ''. This contains both the ideas of god absolute and personal . God is just an Idea within us so obviously we cannot even attribute to a Maha Yogi like Aurobindo a 100% usage of God in the absolute sense - his more immature writings would have God in the personal manner and later more mature writings would be in an absolute manner . This is so the case with everyone - even you and me and others . Obviously tomorrow you get an earth shattering experience into the infinite - your all future writings would be in the sense of the Absolute barring where you may be writing for others of a personal god in the matter of worship or visions etc.
As for evil Erica - it is a very cloistered view , there is no Good or Evil as we are all not quite awake , it is like the formation of a placenta into a fully grown and deliverable parcel . Strange , on one hand we are just starting to evolve into a more respectable entity from the formless placenta , whereas beings as a species is on the cusp of its extinction . You should not listen to gentlemen as such in the video who expresses so many doubts ,in fact he absolutely revels in it with a very philosophical mien - There are too many anchronisms and , a priori insertions in his intellect . It is a bad egg .
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Erica , I just meant that it is worthless , not that you should not have anything to do with it . But again you are heir to such a rich cultural heritage and the advantages of language to which the rest of the world looks towards at all ages . So I still wonder why you should find it remarkable .
Nobody inherently accepts anything on faith even if it is a mahatma - faith implies knowledge , the obverse is blind faith which is stupidity .
Perspective is not Cognition and Logic is an explanation of how Gnosis is revealed in the intellect - it is not a science to be learnt - it is an exposition of the truth , it is realized ,
Words are only names given to feelings , it is the feeling which has precedence over sounds.
I still hold you in the greatest of esteem and particularly for the father and daughter analogy !! Do not listen to your mind is all I can say . Thank you for the ray of joy you brought to me !!
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ModeratorPermalink Reply by John on -
Aphorisms are very much like Poetry. They mostly contain "keys" or symbols to express ideas and concepts that are impossible to do in language.
e.g.
"the field of roses is an ocean of love from god"
vs:
"The field of thorns is a sea of urchins from god"
Epicurus has spent too much time in the philosophy department.
In Theosophy we deal with microcosm, mind, macrocosm. This is not the union of Science, Religion and Philosophy, which is merely another HPB'ism and is not theosophy.
Sri Aurobindo is saying that mind must leave its individualism, or self (eliminate the ego etc.) and identify to the universal mind (or universal Being, god etc.) and then continue outward, i.e. mind+internal+external. A community in this state, shall become perfected.
Sri Aurobindo also uses "Sacrifice" and "Surrender" as nearly synomynous. (just fyi. You may run into this sometime).
So, to understand it, one must use poetic structures. These may express those ideas which mere words can never do.
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ModeratorPermalink Reply by John on -
Hi Erica!
I was concerned that Sri Aurobindo was still misunderstood. I think we are fine on that.
Sri Aurobindo was not Christian or Monotheistic in the Abrahamic sense, so bringing in the item with Epicurus had me confused. That is cleared up. I appreciate your comments here! (and on Theosophy.net as well !!).
Thanks for the insights!
John
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