Baghavad Gita - Book 1
The Baghavad Gita could be considered something of a world spiritual classic, offering considerations that are relevant for today, no matter what faith one belongs to or not. Before discussing book one, I'd like to share an esoteric Advaita Vedanta working hypothesis that may or may not provide a certain metaphysical background for discussion of certain themes. The table below represents a chart of four stages of the manifestation of the universe with correspondences at other levels (Taken from part 1 of Subba Row's Notes on the Baghavad Gita):
Cosmos |
Individual |
Vach |
Pranava |
1- Parabrahmam |
Atma |
Para Vach |
Parabrahmam (Avyatkam) |
2- Logos (Eswara) |
Karana Sharira |
Pasyanti Vach |
Sutratma |
3- Daiviprakriti |
Sukshma Sharira |
Madhyama Vach |
Hiranyagarbha |
4- Mulaprakriti |
Sthula Sharira |
Vaikhari Vach |
Vishwanara |
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Emmanuel Ikan Astillero on
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In Blavatskian theosophy, if Parabrahman = Atma at the INdividual, Logos (below Parabrahman/Atma) would be = Buddhi (Intuition) at the Individual; and similarly, Daiviprakriti (below Logos) would be = Kama (Mind) at the INdividual. And would Mulaprakriti combine all 4 principles below Kama - at the Individual - i.e., the Lower Qaurternary (Lower Mind, Astral, Etheric Double and Physical Body)? Noel
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Permalink Reply by Hari Menon on
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Dear Emmanuel ,
I may be able to venture something , if only you could clear a small obstacle that that is in place in my mind - I would like to remind you that I am not even in the smallest way familiar with Blavatskian theosophy ,. But the words Atma , ParaBrahman,Buddhi,Daiva Prakriti,Kama and Mulaprakriti , are very familiar terms. On the other hand I am familiar with the "concepts" of Lower Mind & the Doppleganger/double (but not etheric double), Physical body of course naturally and as for the word Astral it is not clear what it is comprised of . Without going into polemics(on a reading - to me atleast) Lower Mind. astral, Etheric double and Physical Body do not mix well - The Physical Body is matter or material and is known by direct perception, the double is a shadow having no substance , Astral is a particular "State of consciousness" in which many things take place and there are rules of existence , Mind is yet another matter (there are no divisions in the mind - it is only for comprehension that Lower Mind and upper mind or Illuminated mind or pure mind are used ). If you impose a divison on the mind - how would you "Remove" the same superimposition ? Or ''Remove the lines" as Nietzcshe put it ?. The lower quartenary as you put it cannot be clubbed - there are variances and a lot of deficiencies in the word - it is some kind of an adhoc principle which is very personal to the writer who has "used' it to explain away some inconsistencies that have /or were not resolved by the ''Thinker" - one should immediately reject such classifications if one is to progress to better knowledge and experiences.
We do not have a "Logos" the word was introduced first by Aurobindo who had had a latin education , and used this greek word to express himself better .
The concept of Double is purely from the higher realms of Literature and was part of the initial hypothesis in Philosophy - until its automatic exegesis due to its literary origins (in printing ) and superstitions in the human intellect. So etheric double is only again a ''Nonce word" used by the author to ''Explain" her/his position and would not hold good in my philosophy or in any World Philosophy since it is ''time bound"
The Vedic words are integral to an understanding of Indian thought and Philosophy and cannot be treated or compared with "time bound" philosophies. I can give you a small peep into vedic thinking _ none of the words that you have quoted are words having FORM in their Ideanation - Itself the limit and the thinker in His understanding puts the limit on the words . As you concieve so you become .
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Dear Miguel ,
The table is correct and subtler in each succeeding stage both across and from top to bottom or bottom to top as a person may perceive.
The first (Cosmos) is - Samkhya or Sankhya Yoga (It is the percusor to Vedanta and is helpful even today for its beautiful ability to help attain to a one pointed intellect which is amenable to Gnana Yoga - In Itself it will not enable self realization but helps one to gain to the Yoga of Wisdom
The second (Individual) is Upanishadic ( Pancha Kosha Vidya ) - This Vidya (Science) confers self realization as the only way it can be done is through Deep Thought and in transcending the various sheaths (Koshas) by knowledge . It involves meditation By thought and rising in concsciousness by thought into Silence. It is Gnana Yoga and if improperly practicsed (ie if the intellect is gross ) it fails very badly is a waste of time (sometimes going into years ) and frustration , There is a period of Instruction in the basic concepts and meditation by thought on the same before it can be fully gone into . There are still exponents of this Vidya who are adepts . It merges at each succeeding stage (beginning from below) first the senses in the mind , the mind in the Intellect,the intellect in its cause ( the empirical ego ) and that cause in the Atma .The Panchagni Vidya in the Gita is the same as this vidya in the upanishads - the reference is ti 'Fire" and it is top down - Both are corollories of the same , there is no dissonance either way - it holds good irrespective of the path and is without contradictions.
The Third (Vach ) is very subtle even from its beginning and - has two three aspects - 1. In Kundalini Yoga where it hwo variations based on the inclination of the practitioner - Chakras remaining same - Some worship the Purusha (or Knowledge Element ) and others have Shakthi Sanchara (Prakriti) - The symbolism is same in both -padmam, swastik etc but Tibetan Mysticism (not Buddhism) is more Dynamic - In the sense that (I mean ) teleological powers are manifested much quicker than in Vedanta which is . The Chi aspect has many parallels too here as kundalini is the cosmic force underlying all creation . Here too shakthi sanchara will not confer self realization - 2)This has to be understood in the light of another Upanishadic Vidya (Sabdha Vidya ) or more loosely Hamsa Yoga . Knowledge of Rk and Mantras and words and their meanings and meanings themselves are the knowledge meditations which can confer self realization.
3. It is the preliminary stage for the individual in the Pranava Meditations as it is microcosmic (In the above table) and is alternatively used with the Pranava at each stage.
Lastly Pranava ( Or meditation on OM ) is highly Upanishadic and Vedantic and is the sure culmination of efforts in Experience and Self realization . Vedanta does not recognize anything that does not confer experience which is why it is called Advaita . There is experience at EVERY stage and it relies on the cleanliness and honesty of the practitioner to use that experience tempered with common sense to carry on - This is a purely Knowledge path and it is not without some amusement that one thinks about the millions who are trying to get some vibration or cosmic attunement or connection by breathing and chanting , raising of kundalini and other nonsense with aids (adjuncts). Much as one is distressed by the exposition of Hata Yoga without knowledge ,Romancing the stone is better .
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Permalink Reply by Capt. Anand Kumar on
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What other reference that Daiviprakriti is Fohat, apart from one sentence by TSR is available? What about Paraprakriti and Aparaprakriti? Thanks.
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Oh Captain ! My Captain you are opening up a whole can of worms !
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At Theosophy.net, we have never been afraid of any worms. Please open the can. Thanks.
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Thanks Miguel. Perhaps it would not be incorrect to assume that HPB made Fohat - Daiviprakriti connection on the guidance of TSR. TSR himself just spoke one sentence about it without giving any reference. Since both the words are not found anywhere else, it makes one curious how they are considered to be equivalent.
In the SD, the word FOHAT is used to describe a Principle, a Process and a Product. It therefore becomes quite confusing for an average person. I wrote about it with examples in some post, which I am unable to find now.
The only known explanation for Daiviprakriti is given by Late Bhagwan Das. I have attached the extract here. You may appreciate that based on this explanation, it is quite difficult to make the connection.
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Daiviprakriti - Pranava Vada.pdf, 537 KB
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Thanks to Joe Fulton who restored the functioning of Google Custom Search box, I was able to find the post where I gave the example of how FOHAT was used to describe a Principle, a Process and a Product. Daiviprakriti being only a process, arising out of the Pranava Principle (relation of negation between A & U in the sacred word AUM) as explained in the Pranava Vada, it seems difficult to equate the two. HPB perhaps did not go deep into it and merely repeated what was told to her by the people she considered to be an authority on the subject.
One of the closest resemblance for FOHAT that I have come across is the Sanskrit word "Sphuratta", in the Spanda Doctrine of Kashmir Shaivism from which Esoteric Buddhism is known to have borrowed heavily. However due to my own lack of understanding of Sanskrit language I am unable to progress further in that regard.
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Distinguished theosophist and former head of Esoteric Society I K Taimni has written a much acclaimed explanation of one of the primary texts of Kashmir Shaivism - The Shiv Sutras, titled "The Ultimate Reality & Realization". A most beautiful translation by Jaideva Singh of the "Spanda Karikas" is available for download from the English Texts download section of this site.
Nisargadatta Maharaj has written some of the most fascinating treatise on Advaita Vedanta as taught in Kashmir. Amongst the gems is "I am That". There are several others to his name which I am yet to read.
If one is familiar with Sanskrit then "Tantraloka of Abhinava Gupta" is a must read. This has not been translated into English so far. It is available for free download from the Digital Library of India in 12 volumes.
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Dear Captain,
Nisargadatta is really good , As for about esoteric books - I once had occassion whilst at Sree Krishna Mandir at Kanniyakumari to meet an ascetic who gave me a book called "Prtaybhijnanam" I read it and returned it to him - Subsequently I have not not been able to get a copy of the same though I searched for it - It was in the Kashmir Advaita Tradition and had been written by a Tibetan (all I remember from the name is Choo ) who had been an initiate to an Indian sage . The book was in both Sanskrit with english transliteration. It is strange just when you hit an obstacle how the necessary knowledge or impetus comes from outside the same way it comes from inside .
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Thanks Hari. Nisargadatta Maharaj is indeed amongst the finest exponent of Advaita. Pratyabhijnahrdayam is available for download from the Digital Library of India. But when I checked today their servers were not responding. Will check again in a few days and notify you. The downloaded book is about 41 Mb and not suitable for e-mailing.
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