Can Christianity survive the millenium?
I've lived in the U.S. South my whole life and, while I can definitely say that it's in no danger of dying out anytime soon, there's definitely signs that things are not looking good for the old guard. Church membership is WAY down from when I was a youngster in High Point, NC. To combat this, it seems that once-moderate churches are having to either get a lot more liberal or a lot more conservative in order to keep interest up. Has anyone else noticed this trend? I'm curious about others' thoughts on it. I know it's a popular "New Age" conception that the "Age of Pisces" is passing and "The Age of Aquarius" is upon us--I think that there's probably something to it.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ferran Sanz Orriols on
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Hi, Arthur!!!
I'm a fan of Alice A. Bailey's books ( regarding HPB, I'm a fan of her and of her books:)
I do think that these books (more than 20) are worth the effort of serious study. In her "unconcluded autobiography" she declares that she doesn't like/understand inter racial marriages and that is natural as she was raised inside English aristocracy (everyone must be born somewhere) but not only because of prejudice but also because she had seen that these marriages were (in her time) more difficult (and painful) than average ones.
Nowadays all marriages are much more difficult than they were in AAB's time and divorce is much easier.
I don't remember in which book(s) the "Jewish problem" is dealt with, but I think that there is a "Jewish problem" in our world. We only have to watch the news to know that there is a problem. ( I don't mean to offend using these words, if anyone writes the politically correct terms, I'll use these)
HPB also wrote "non politically correct" words about the Jews and has been called anti-semite and worse things by people who have not read her books thoroughly.
Have a nice day!!!
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I have checked the reference for "The Jewish problem" in AAB's books. It is found in the last part of "A Treatise on Seven Rays vol. I, Esoteric Psychology", very near to the end of the volume.
This is the link:
http://www.bailey.it/testi-inglese/Esoteric-Psychology-a-Treatise-o...
Have a nice day!!!
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Permalink Reply by Arthur E Gregory on
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Thanks for your responses Ferran.. and getting back to me. I suppose we could say that there are definite cultural influences that play a part of the work of Alice Baily as with others..
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Permalink Reply by Capt. Anand Kumar on
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"Change", as the Great Teacher Gautam Budha opined, "is the only constant in the universe". "Change", as one of the finest social thinkers of the last century, Alvin Toffler noted, "is also the most difficult task to manage". Be it in our home, society, organizations or the nations. What cannot change will perish.
Going by that logic, Christianity should survive if it changes.
Change is evolution and Christianity will evolve too, if it changes.
The expansion of fundamentalism is a natural consequence of societies overwhelmed with change. So eloquently discussed in Alvin Toffler's path-breaking work "Future Shock". I am not sure if Toffler was familiar with Theosophy's principles of evolution but the ideas desribed come so close to it. And have proved to be so prophetic.
I would rather expand the question- will Humanity, as we understand the word currently, survive this millenium? Or, by the time "The Age of Aquarius" is over, will we see a completely new Humanity? What will it be like?
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I found this story on the internet somewhere:
One day Buddha was in his cave, and Ananda, Buddha’s assistant, was standing near the entrance. Suddenly he saw Mara, the evil one, coming. Mara walked straight to Ananda and told him to announce his visit to Buddha.
Ananda said, "Why have you come here? You were defeated by Buddha under the Bodhi tree. Go away! You are his enemy!"
Mara began to laugh. "Did you say that your teacher has told you that he has enemies?" That made Ananda very embarrassed. He went in to announce Mara to Buddha.
"Is it true? Is he really here?" Buddha went out in person to greet Mara. He bowed and took his hands in the warmest way. "How have you been? Is everything all right?"
After they sat down to tea, Mara said, "Things are not going well at all. I am tired of being a Mara. You have to talk in riddles, and if you do anything, you have to be tricky and look evil. I’m tired of all that. But the worst part is my disciples. Now they are talking about social justice, peace, equality, liberation, nonduality, nonviolence, all that. It would be better if I hand them all over to you. I want to be something else."
Buddha listened with compassion. "Do you think it’s fun being a Buddha? My disciples put words in my mouth that I never said. They build garish temples. They package my teachings as items for commerce. Mara, you don’t really want to be a Buddha!"
Could the story apply to Christianity too.
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Permalink Reply by J. Spencer Rich on
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I agree with Paul on most respects (including calling me "Spencer"). But I would say that the kind of ugliness that we see in a lot of Christianity today certainly goes farther and deeper than America. I haven't visited Europe, myself, and I'm sure in some ways, a lot of European nations are more tolerant, but let's not forget Christianity's SOMETIMES very ugly history, both Catholic (well, actually MOSTLY Catholic) and Protestant (particularly the Church of England, but I'd say that Calvinism has had some pretty negative effects, as well.)
That said, I think the race issue is certainly valid. A lot of people of my father's generation still associate Islam with the "Nation of Islam"--that is, the Black Muslems of the 60's, which Malcolm X eventually broke from to become a Sunni Muslim, softening his "the white man is the devil" stance in the process. I think that there's been an attempt, particularly by FOX to associate President Obama with this kind of thinking. Of course, the truth is that the overwhelming majority of African Americans in this country are Christian and the ones that are Muslim are not necessarily militant. Not to say that if there was a military coup to usurp the white power structure that I would necessarily be opposed, but overall, I believe that nonviolence is always the best way.
In response to Capt. Kumar, I'd say that story is right on.
One last thing--in addition to reading Besant's essays and speeches concerning Christianity, I'd also encourage everyone to engage in the activity that I'm currently pursuing, which is reading the Gnostic gospels of Nag Hamadhi (sp?). They're really fascinating.
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Permalink Reply by Heidi Ann Maycroft on
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Good Morning All,
I might believe Christianity will survive; however, it might be a (the) prominent reason for a world catastrophe.
Humanity cannot evolve properly thinking that individuals are not responsible for their own actions; hence the Christian belief—just say you believe in Jesus and all your sins are forgiven. Each and every one of us is responsible not only for our actions but also our thoughts.
Humanity cannot evolve properly thinking that eating meat is OK. Hence the Christian belief that God made animals to serve and feed man, and to entertain man by sport hunting (we are just as much to blame for the horrid conditions of these animals as the Christians). The slaughter houses, which is another issue, has got to be stopped, one way or another. If man does not stop this tragedy, something higher will. Animals are evolving the same as mineral, vegetable, and man. Animals do have souls; their higher triad is just latent at this time. I read that to die for another human or “animal” is virtuous. A Christian might laugh at the idea of putting their life in danger for the sake of an animal.
I have to add this incredibly horrid idea that the churches are teaching our children: “We Christians are better than everyone else and God only loves us, and only we will be saved idea”: The Christians think that they will “rise up to heaven” and leave everyone else on earth behind to suffer, burn, and die, then proceed to “hell” when “their” apocalypse comes.
The above are theories that mankind could change. The question is will Theosophist and other clear seeing peoples manage to create right thought and right action, or will the higher powers step in? Christianity for one is responsible for these gross beliefs against evolution. I am feeling as the 2012 “misunderstanding” becomes closer, the hype of the masses is increasing and the bridge between Christians and the rest of humanity has all but been broken to pieces.
Will Christianity survive the millennium? From my personal experience with Christians, their beliefs and separatism ideas are very strong. I doubt they will dissolve anytime soon. If their wrong thinking, and wrong actions are not corrected (which I doubt they will be) humanity might be in for a huge change. I am thinking a shift in the earth’s axis or something similar.
I do attend a Christian church every week for my family’s sake (so sad I must pretend to believe just so my family will accept me—for the church has taught them not to associate with people of other beliefs!). So I have a good idea on the thoughts and teachings at least with the church I attend. After every visit I literally get physically sick hearing what is taught, especially to the impressionable children and weak/lost/troubled, gullible adults.
Anxious for your thoughts (warm smile)
Love to all
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Heidi wrote:
After every visit I literally get physically sick hearing what is taught, especially to the impressionable children and weak/lost/troubled, gullible adults
Just my own reaction to your comment but with your continued attendance for your family's sake it seems to me that (1) you are placing your self in a bind and (2) not offering an alternative to your family..not suggesting exactly what you should do..but have you considered maybe an alternative where you do not have to be "literally get physically sick" ... a place where you can feel happy and nurtured and radiate some good things for your family at the same time..?
I'd be concerned with the build up of hostility and frustration you have..
Maybe it's my old counseling hat I'm wearing here... just take it as a suggestion...
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Good Morning Arthur and All,
Answer to (1) Agreed! However, I would rather go along with my son and not disagree or say my true thoughts, than to be shut out of his life and my grand children’s (when they have them).
Answer to (2) My son is so firm on the teachings of his “newly found” Christian religion (introduced to him by his wife of five years) that he absolutely refuses at this time to acknowledge other people’s religious views are not only valid, but everyone spiritually is in their own place. His church, as I mentioned discourages communications with people from “other” churches. [Yes--like at the work place...].
Certainly this religious separation of the people will not stop until universal brotherhood becomes more important than individual and group egotism.
Intuitively correct Arthur, I do feel a buildup of hostility and frustration; so sad to “loose” my son to a narrow-minded religious organization—it hurts.
Your “old counseling hat” works well these days and is much appreciated. To step back and think of this ancient human conflict not on an individual level, but by the larger discrimination's practiced by groups and societies, what can Theosophy do to promote Universal Brotherhood? I do not have an answer. I do not have an answer to help me on my individual level.
It is not myself that I am concerned with, but it is my son’s attitude and then greater than that, what my grandchildren will grow up learning; what the Christian churches teach. I too have a degree in psychology—very helpful sometimes—but my Theosophy base is what helps me to understand the whole picture.
So, my question again: What can students of Theosophy do these days to promote Universal Brotherhood?
Love to all…
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In time your son may mellow .. It's always new converts that are the most zealous.. also I can see you want to keep some form of family unity or continuity with your grandchildren..
Keep the channel open with your son and grandchildren and even daughter in law.. Maybe there's some work to be done in that area...finding things in common.
You pose a great question!:
What can students of Theosophy do these days to promote Universal Brotherhood?
How can we promote universal brotherhood?
Work on what we have in common and what we can build on...
I think that might be a good topic for discussion.. Do enter it..
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I sympathize with your situation. However, I still think you're generalizing about Christians too much. I'm sure there are plenty of vegan and vegetarian Christians, and many more who would frown on the idea of "hunting for sport," which is a pretty atrocious activity. Furthermore, not all of them are so ready to condemn the rest of the world to Hell. It just sounds like you've had bad personal experiences with them. Don't get me wrong--I've had bad experiences w/Christians, as well, and I think that probably a majority of them are at least a bit deluded. But fewer and fewer people in today's society are taking Genesis, for example, at face value. The downside being that for a lot of people, Darwin's become the ultimate authority.
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Good Morning Spencer and All,
I agree with you, I am generalizing Christians too much; probably due to environment. However, I must say when I was made to attend Catholic Church as a toddler through my late teenage years—the older I got—the more I thought the “church” and its members were “evil”. Going there gave me an uncomfortable feeling that I have never shed.
In my opinion Darwin’s theories are better to acknowledge than religious dogma, but Darwinism only goes so far and then it takes the wrong path, like other “theories”.
And yes, I am reminded: “Do not cast down pearls at the feet of swine”, and it makes sense.
Thank you for this wonderful conversation : )
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