Thought power
Thoughts on this link. Paul
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Capt. Anand Kumar on
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UG Krishnamurti was a contemporary of J Krishnamurti and a nihilist, in the opinion of some. He had certain very unconventional views. Sample this:
Krishnamurti held all human experience to be the result of this process of thought. The self-consciousness or "I" in human beings is born out the need to give oneself continuity through the constant utilization of thought.[5] When this continuity is broken, even for a split second, its hold on the body is broken and the body falls into its natural rhythm. Thought also falls into its natural place – then it can no longer interfere or influence the working of the human body. In the absence of any continuity, the arising thoughts combust.
In its natural state, the senses of the body take on independent existences (uncoordinated by any "inner self") and the ductless glands (that correspond to the locations of the Hindu chakras) become reactivated. Krishnamurti described how it is the pineal gland, or the Ajna Chakra, that takes over the functioning of the body in the natural state, as opposed to thought.
Mankind has speculated on the power of thought for a very long time. I have a few friends who meditate together (bring all of their thoughts together) at a certain appointed time worldwide claiming that by channeling their thoughts together they will introduce changes in the way humanity thinks. Some of them have been doing it for over twenty years and have not paused to analyze if there have been any results of their thoughts. Whether what they are doing is worth it?
Since even neurologists are not even close to understand the process that leads to generation of thought how can anyone claim that thoughts are energy (what kind?), have power (to do what?) etc.?
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Permalink Reply by Hari Menon on
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What is Jnana Yoga ? It is nothing but the transcending by thought and merging in silence which is natural to everyone and is called Niddidhyasa in Jnana Yoga ,
Now it is possible to "travel" at will by thought if one has through the proper practice of Jnana attained to the intellect - which is above and subtler and holds the mind within it . One need not "get out " of the body or anything - this is the power of thought in the intellect . One can easily just by thinking on a person or object come to "intuitively' know everything about it . Now this is lower knowledge and as long as there is thought there is ego , and so what I have mentioned above is a very high stage but albeit still an egoistical state where the thinker and the thought are separate .It is normal for people to communicate by thought , it is exactly as if one were to talk to another person , but the composite "feeling" or "idea' that arises is what is transmitted in its entirety . From the above it can be seen that unlike in the physical world , the knowledge that comes to a person on thinking of a word is far in excess than that if communicated by words . In fact "everything" about the word is known or idea is known . This is the thought world . Neurologists have nothing to do with thoughts , nor the brain , the braim may manifest some stimuli t some particular part of some subtler movement that is all . Thoughts cannot be analysed by anyone per se - as thoughts arise in consciousness only and not in anything else - and the nature of consciousness is identity in the first instance and so when a thought arises or a person thinks he identifies himself with the thought initially and then there is a moving away or the returning of the thought to consciousness , Thoughts comprise of the following in the first instance - Tejas , Apas , Annam
Light , Water and Food - the subtlest part of it since this is the minds function and the mind is made up of the subtlest of food.
Then Thoughts are Sound,Energy and Matter (Heatand Light ) . And consists like Prana of Movement and Light .
The subtlest [parts of thought are : Knowledge and Consciousness - but in this the individual thought does not partake of , once it is divorced by ego from consciousness. It becomes an object of knowledge only , or a subject for knowledge .
The "I " is the false continuity on our consciousness which is the experiencing agent or the Empirical Ego . It lies like a shadow on our intellect and gives the intellect an appearance of being conscious and in turn the intellect superimposes the agency of the finite on the self .
Thoughts have no power at all - they are just shadows an it is consciousness that imparts power to them and everything stands in consciousness , Even the ability to intuit of things unseen and unknown are done by consciousness and thoughts are the vehicle since to experience or know a thing one has to be an agent , One can know only if there is the intellect and agency , pure consciousness cannot be known and can only be known through the intellect by an embodied being .
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Neurologists may have nothing to do with thought (though one wonders how much philosophers know), but they are sure learning.
How thoughts arise in the brain is still a grey area but how it is cognized is being gradually understood. It is through a great and complex interplay of neurons, axons, synapses and dendrites. Several of the spiritual phenomena like OOBE, various types of clairvoyance are now treatable neurological disorders. There is an interesting article here. Another interesting article on decoupling of attention and awareness can be read here. As the pace of discoveries picks up it would not unreasonable to assume that by the end of next decade many definitive answers will emerge.
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Dear Jessica,
You are correct , what many people do not understand is that the physical heart and physical brain have no relevance in the subtle body ,it is feelings alone that are translated into thoughts and arise in the region of the Anhata Chakra.
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Very Good Jessica. But it is not entirely correct that chanting by greater number of people will make that wave or vibration more intense. For that to happen a phenomena called Resonance is required where waves increase their amplitude while retaining the frequency and the wavelength.
Resonance, Rhythm or Laya in Sanskrit, is the key to construction and deconstruction of phenomena according to some eastern thought. Mere chanting scarcely appears to be the way.
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EMR is vibration or wave too!
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I have no clue about that as I cannot say for sure, if thoughts are vibrations though many claim to be so.
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Dear Jessica ,
There are no vibrations or waves or electricity as people say to describe many things related to thoughts , it is a very puerile and very unscientific way , we might as well imagine transmission towers and transponders and transformers or what ever - the thing of it is whatever any person thinks has its effect in the "Thought world" . It is a level of consciousness (Knowledge) having rules and growth and existence and vanishing away which are relating to thoughts . It is not a concept but is real , and explains many things that occur in the physical world , it is also not something conjured up by fakirs in the himalayas or on mount fuji or in the Urals, this is very well known to men of letters and , Philologists and many scholars of languages etc. Every thought of each person and the images he holds in his mind or knowledge for part of this world - and it has its interactions with different thought structures just as in the real world - here the rise and fall of dialects, languages, religions and other things are explained easily and is a representation of "what will come'' in the world as manifest experiences in the near future since it is related to thought and action takes place in the physical sense. Why on earth do you want to superimpose , waves and linearity and irregularity and other things as if in electricity and physics - in this world such things are manifested as not electrical analogies but as though structures which are febrile. half crazed. or peaceful, or psychotic. or psychic or dense or in other nuances of the conscious psyche , You should not assume movement in any cogitation on consciousness or knowledge nor should you assume "lines' in consciousness - it is contiguous , segmentation of consciousness is prohibited in thought and movement in the higher thinking is also prohibited . There is only assimilation or identification or wasting possible in the thought world . And since it is knowledge based which is conscious it returns to knowledge , there is no permanent changes here or transformations possible , It dissipates in action in the world or is subsumed by a bigger thought ie. merged in knowledge that is all .
Any Ideas of Motion are purely human ideas Jessica, even animals do not have such concepts nor birds . It is possible that the ego of a person may revolt at such a statement , but unfortunately it is the truth .As you transcend to higher thinking , the number of concepts and theories reduce exponentially not vice versa. The infinite has no theories of human beings and is not concerned with concepts which give rise to ideas , it is reality itself , Nature also does not concern itself with human beings or anyone for that matter - after a child or tree or animal is born natures duty is over and does not concern itself with the further life and times , it is individual nature which takes over and is concerned with the trials and tribulations of life , cosmic nature finishes its duty when a thing is come into existence , its duty is over that is all . It is left for the species to evolve rules of conduct etc .
What is happening in the world today is of the results of what has already passed by in the thought world . It is not reversible once the fall out begins , the thoughts have to exhaust itself on its own accord or better thought structures must prevail and subsume the others . It takes time and then good ensues that is all. Which is why probably the saying as you sow so you reap .
I hope I have been able to make you think ....
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UG Krishnamurti spent seven years trying to learn yoga from Swami Sivananda. He left quite dissatisfied.
During these years U.G. began feeling that something went wrong somewhere in the religious traditions in which he had been immersed since his childhood. Swami Sivananda's behavior of devouring pickles behind closed doors while at the same time preaching eating ascetic (bland) food to his disciples made him realize that if there was anything to these holy men, it was only unadulterated hypocrisy.
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Dear Captain ,
I am really astonished at how you stumble upon such negative things , In modern times Swami Sivananda of the Divine life mission is one Sannyasi who had a whole lot of Students who later were self realized and made a name for them selves , he was a Sannyasis Sannyasi and an adept in the true classical sense of Advaita Vedanta , I have been to his ahsram at Rishikesh and that too many many years after his samadhi , Now let me tell you about Ashrams which are actually very powerful places having had a succession of realized souls , you will get very divine experiences and many things far too deep to go into . You can see the subtle world in the same dimensions as the physical world and you will see it as actually happening and believe it yourself in real time . I have seen this same thing during my stay there !!. But I reasoned it out properly as a teaching of the "Phenomenology of the senses"- there are many other things which one comes across in good ashrams - UG was a tremendously disgruntled aspirant and he remained a mere student , somehow he lacked the keeness of intellect which maybe due to past karma whereby he could never reconcile or be able to spot genius even when it was in front of him . I wonder how he saw someone devouring food whilst behind closed doors , I wondered and was shown many more things since I related it to my senses ! such a simple thing and he did not possess the integrity to question the validity of his senses and what they were showing him !!. Captain an ounce of experience is worth a million books in this path. The senses are so strong , that once I was having Dosa at home and I found myself eating beef !! It drove me crazy , these are higher learnings on the senses and the mind .You can question religious traditions since they have only partial validity , but you cannot question the self , one self , for then one moves into non being . There is a particular man called Carlos Castenada who was discredited in the western world in later years , even by that great Osho or Rajaneesh the greatest fraud that India has foisted on the Western world was critical of many people and ultimately suffered a lot .Now one of the main things that were raised against him was that - whilst he was 'undergoing" many experiences which he has narrated in his various books - he was seen at a library at the same time in another place . Now What If I can attest to the fact that a person can be in two places at the same time ?. It is an experience which stabilizes in later life . And it is an exposition on what consciousness can do . One has to learn from such experiences , whether one calls it a simple OOBE (another concept) or really tries to understand it rather than consider it as knowledge with a whole lot of nebulous superstition attached to it .Discrimination is the seed of the self .
In any case if you go to the Himalayas and other places there are people who have been struggling with every aspect of yoga and are no nearer than they were on their first day .
There is a very dangerous thing in Yoga which many people do not realize (including Osho) - it is all about the self and not another person (which becomes clearer later - how one is everybody and everybody one self ) - and so the thoughts that arise within oneself which one may think is in relation to another (as is done by low intellects , who are worldly) is actually the self "pushing up" things about oneself , which if listened to correctly and rectified one advances in life . Sometimes gurus test their students and the students are free to test the guru . One tests the potency of a guru by many ways and you will be astonished at the results , it is very humbling and yet it is allowed and part of the learning . There is a very lively give and take by the Guru and student at both the mental and intellectual level. Atma - Anatma Vivekam can be extended to gurus also .
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Thanks Hari.
Since the topic of discussion here is Thought Power and not Sivananda or UGK I will only be very brief.
I have searched and so far not found anyone contradicting what UGK wrote about Sivananda. UGK was equally scathing in his indictment of Raman Maharishi and that has not been contradicted either.
UGK was a rarest of rare genius who gave up his desire for knowledge and in the process elevated himself to the next level of thought. Sivananda belonged to a long and illustrious line of post-office style teachers. Both deserve our respect.
One often wonders whether the knowledge that limits oneself within positive, negative, good karma, bad karma, past karma, future karma, telepathy, telepresence, astral travels, akashic records (all phenomenal phenomena) etc. is really worth acquiring.
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