Illuminati

I have been doing research on the Illuminati, and various Brotherhoods for a track of thought in a book I am working on. Recently I ran across a very brief reference to the Rosecrucian Illuminati, one I would consider a contender for what would constitute the [real] Illuminati ... it was in the Secret Doctrine. A curious find. Was wondering if this subject has come up before in Theosophical teachings, and if there is any Theosphical connection to, for or against it? I have found some loose connections by way of the Brotherhood of the Serpent (or snake) which I already have found references for in Theosophy, as it has an implied reference to the wisdom behind the Serpent in the Garden of Eden.

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Permalink Reply by Christian von Lahr on March 29, 2011 at 4:33am

People say the Illuminati is not in this physical world. People who say that never even seen anything other than the physical and what their brains hallucinate and never question; more likely parrots who want to consider themselves knowledgeable. Accepting claimed truths and then adding to them with particular support from certain sources of information considered authority may be a mistake on some people part; I start off at naught, with nada without a belief in these things. These quotes mean nada.

>>>I am deducing, though difficult, that it is the [parroting] that means nothing. So, that subjectivity aside, you’ve left standing that “The Illuminati may not be in this physical world.”

Permalink Reply by Christian von Lahr on March 29, 2011 at 4:36am

Michael A. Williams said:

Christian, the original "Illuminati" was founded by Adam Weishaupt, in 1776 in upper Bavaria.

Thank you Michael. Since the Illuminati, and quite demonstrably [their] Secret Societies are as adept at rewriting History (in fact S an objective) as the Christian church was, I most definitely would not put a whole lot of stock in this presumption, of who, when and where.

Permalink Reply by Christian von Lahr on March 29, 2011 at 5:37am

I ordered your book, "The Secrets & The Mysteries Of Genesis: Antiquity's Hall of Records," also an area of interest for me.

William John Meegan said:

Christian:

As much as we know about secret societies I would advise not to look into them for the very reason that secrecy has nothing to do with any of these organization. They are simply social clubs or power bases for networking to govern the world. Let those idiots do what they do best. The last thing they want is for the average person to gain true spiritual knowledge, which forester self-awareness and independence. They need you to realize that you need them.

Permalink Reply by Heidi Ann Maycroft on March 29, 2011 at 7:07am

+ -

oh, oh

Christian, I think so too!

You said, "I, personally, have little doubt that every shred of prophetic scripture, secret writing, ancient teaching, religious artifact and the entire works from the Library of Alexandria are hidden away in the vaulted library of the Vatican ..."

Ever read Anne Rice, or is it Ann Rice . . .

A clue is hidden within her works

interesting

thoughts anyone

[would love to visit the Vatican just to feel the vibrations that exists within those halls]

tilnext

Permalink Reply by William John Meegan on March 29, 2011 at 4:49pm

Christian:

I am a Catholic and I can tell you that you do not have to pine away thinking that the Church has secret teachings that you would love to get your hands on. If you have the sacred scriptures you have all you need. There between the covers of that book are ANTIQUITY'S HALL OF RECORDS. It is that you personally on an individual level have to learn how to read it.

You mentioned that you ordered my work. That is good because it will give you an idea of what you must personally do on a contemplative level to grasp the esoteric teachings of the Bible. You can download my academic paper from ROSE+CROIX JOURNAL: THE SISTINE CHAPEL: A Study in Celestial Cartography and you

can study it at your leisure. This paper will also give you an idea of how you must look at the Bible. Merely to read a translated text is of little or no value.

Christian von Lahr said:

People search the whole world seeking the mystery schools when it is right there in front of them: Christianity.

Well, I think we can at least say Christianity is a mystery, and its Holy book a miracle of genius in its construction. I, personally, have little doubt that every shred of prophetic scripture, secret writing, ancient teaching, religious artifact and the entire works from the Library of Alexandria are hidden away in the vaulted library of the Vatican ... if they can't pull of the aforementioned mystery and miracle, nobody can. That said, Christianity [must] be a part of Illuminati. The stated aim of "One Government, One Religion" seems quite realizable given the unfathomable riches and influence of the Church of Rome. Theosophy will be trounced and expunged once and for all, as Christianity has managed of most historical, spiritual history and record. The unification of powers has been underway for decades, if not centuries. The time for [dis-order], the only true threat to this unification is probably now … and so, those that are of a mind to must conclude their research and reach their conclusions so as to wage a overthrow for Universal Truth, not unified truth, which is in no way the same thing.

Permalink Reply by Michael A. Williams on March 29, 2011 at 10:36pm

William,

I must challenge on a few statements. You tell us not to look into "Secret Societies" or "Mystery Schools' and just rely on your research over many years. Nothing could be further from what to do. You've stated you're a Catholic, and this reflects the Catholic Church's position for centuries. It's obvious that the real Mystery Schools and Secret Societies have posed a power threat to the Church and they've tried to wipe them out time after time. (The Protestant Churches are no better, as they advise people not to study these either)

I say let people, if this is their chosen path, join and investigate, research and study any and all of the ancient Mystery Schools and Secret Societies, West and East, and decide for themselves. I think in the process they'll find there is much more to the metaphysical and spiritual life than the standard "sacred scriptures."

I don't say not to study the "sacred scriptures," which I assume you mean the New Testament. But, any study of that has to keep in mind that the Council of Nicea was a power play on the part of Constantine and the participants. They edited, revised, and misinterpreted(intentionally and unintentionally) what documents they accepted, throwing out what didn't suit their purposes.

As for the Vatican Library, I'm definitely with the camp that says there is hidden material there, books, documents and artifacts, that would blow the lid off mainstream Christiandom if they ever came to light. Obviously, as a loyal Catholic, you would deny such.

As for "secret teachings" being held by the Catholic Church, in this I'm sure you're right. There's nothing they would have in the form of "teachings" in the Western Mystical/Esoteric tradition that isn't already available somewhere that can be accessed by an interested individual.

Your book is probably worthy of reading for people interested in this line of inquiry. But, are you out to "convert" us to your style of Catholicism or to share your views and suggest that we consider them in a mutually respectful atmosphere?

Permalink Reply by Christian von Lahr on March 30, 2011 at 12:10am

Although raised Catholic, and many other belief systems through my complicated youth, I would feel certain that religion is a key element of what the Illuminati must be comprised of. Evidence of infiltration are many, and I have many logical reasons to implicate the Church on Rome as an Illuminati success story.

Permalink Reply by Christian von Lahr on March 30, 2011 at 3:13am

Thank you William. I have some sense of the triple layers of metaphor, and the confusion of its selective passages. I consider Christianity the new kid on the block when it comes to Spiritual philosophy. As regards the illuminati basis, I am looking 10's of thousands of years earlier - or more - for a true underlying source; perhaps the Sumerians, perhaps the emergence of life out of Ethiopia. There is something ever-present and enduring about this body of [entitled] men. When this actually DID start, and what that initial basis for there being privilege to a few is what interests me. Christianity's story is a rework of several other similar histories of the East, so they could not be the fundamental source, just a current player. Is there proof of something Divine behind this movement? Proof of life elsewhere or visitors? Proof of Mahatmas or Masters? Some Universal power, force, energy ... or a knowledge, book or artifact that gives it its significance? Is there some enduring LIVING proof, either human, lifelike or otherwise, or perhaps the original Tree(s) of the Garden of Eden suspected to be protected in Tibet? Is there some mathematical code or formula, some futuristically telling artifact? Clearly, I am not so hung up on the name itself, for surely there was some other, but perhaps similar in root word meaning, label, name, brotherhood or association.

Permalink Reply by William John Meegan on March 30, 2011 at 10:29am

Michael:

I view secret societies different than Mysteries Schools though many modern secret societies claim to be mystery schools.

I believe that I mentioned quite a few times in my posts that there is no way to influence another in the esoteric teachings. No I do not convert anyone because that is not my onus: it is God's will how a soul seeks Him out.

I just don't get it about this belief from out of the hordes that the Catholic Church has documents (and I am not a Catholic defender) that would blow the lid off: OF WHAT EXACTLY? The teachings of Catholicism cannot be destroyed because they were constructed from the previous religions that went the way of the DO DO BIRD. Their teachings esoterically are the same as all the other major esoteric religions around the world. The Church's teaching came from the empyrean: the MONAD.

What are these people trying to say that they will get rid of corrupted Church officials? So what, new officials will be appointed. The leadership of the Church is not the teachings. The Church's responsibility is liken to the curator of a museum: they protect the integrity of the teachings. They literally have no other responsibility. They may want to think they do but the bottom line is that there is no other purpose for their continuous existence as an organization. I just don't get what would be annihilated by any revelations from documents. To understand that Catholicism is a compendium of all religions and mythologies on earth is no revelation: THAT IS A GIVEN. To understand that their were warmongering popes in the past so what is the difference from our modern presidents?? To learn that they committed untold war crimes: so what of Hitler, Stalin, Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr., Clinton and the hold litany of war criminals. SO WHAT? How does that or any other criminal revelation negate the word of God?

I do understand that the researcher has to go beyond the pale to obtain what will meet his needs in obtaining knowledge of the esoteric science. For me I too have studied many of the Protestant sects and listen to their twaddle. I have also researched much of the occult and esoteric lore. My library is full of such materials, which I have learned a great deal from.

But know this: as much as I ventured into the peripheral teachings of the esoteric science: everything outside of the sacred scriptures and as much as I have learned from them, and still learn from them, it is but a shadow of what I have learned by honing my analytical abilities to the documents of antiquity themselves. All of that peripheral material are liken to notes and scraps of ideas used by the esoterist to prepare for writing the esoteric text. Those images and symbols have no contexts outside their ultimate use in the sacred literature of the world. To see an image or a symbol out of context without explanation has no meaning. But to see that same image or symbol codified esoterically to the text of the sacred scriptures is a thousand times more edifying. Do not get me wrong. It is necessary for the initiate to wade through the mythologies, lore and traditions of the world and the occult and esoteric materials so that he will have a database of knowledge to reference when he comes across it in the esoteric teachings of the sacred scriptures of the world. Without that database as a foundation he would not recognize what he was coming across in his researches.

The occult and present day esoteric lore that we are presented with is as if someone when into a sage's attic and discovered scrap books of ideas, images and symbols long after the sage had published his work and died. Now you may find a work by Dante Alighieri or the Rosarium Philsophorum or whatever and not know that all those images and symbols and ideas are codified to those works. What the attic searcher will take is not the completed published works but the scraps of ideas. "We humans stand on a whale fishing for minnows".

Michael A. Williams said:

William,

I must challenge on a few statements. You tell us not to look into "Secret Societies" or "Mystery Schools' and just rely on your research over many years. Nothing could be further from what to do. You've stated you're a Catholic, and this reflects the Catholic Church's position for centuries. It's obvious that the real Mystery Schools and Secret Societies have posed a power threat to the Church and they've tried to wipe them out time after time. (The Protestant Churches are no better, as they advise people not to study these either)

I say let people, if this is their chosen path, join and investigate, research and study any and all of the ancient Mystery Schools and Secret Societies, West and East, and decide for themselves. I think in the process they'll find there is much more to the metaphysical and spiritual life than the standard "sacred scriptures."

I don't say not to study the "sacred scriptures," which I assume you mean the New Testament. But, any study of that has to keep in mind that the Council of Nicea was a power play on the part of Constantine and the participants. They edited, revised, and misinterpreted(intentionally and unintentionally) what documents they accepted, throwing out what didn't suit their purposes.

As for the Vatican Library, I'm definitely with the camp that says there is hidden material there, books, documents and artifacts, that would blow the lid off mainstream Christiandom if they ever came to light. Obviously, as a loyal Catholic, you would deny such.

As for "secret teachings" being held by the Catholic Church, in this I'm sure you're right. There's nothing they would have in the form of "teachings" in the Western Mystical/Esoteric tradition that isn't already available somewhere that can be accessed by an interested individual.

Your book is probably worthy of reading for people interested in this line of inquiry. But, are you out to "convert" us to your style of Catholicism or to share your views and suggest that we consider them in a mutually respectful atmosphere?

Permalink Reply by Michael A. Williams on March 30, 2011 at 3:46pm

William,

The core exoteric dogma of both the Catholic and Protestant Church is that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, was the only Son Of God, died for our sins on the cross and the only way to Heaven is to believe this and if a person doesn't, they are doomed to everlasting Hell. The Catholic Church adds some spins on it, namely that only through their Church Hierarchy/structure, is a person saved, that the Pope is God's present day and only Emissary on the planet, and that there is a purgatory, and a few other things. Most Protestant denominations believe they are the best way, but will concede only a belief in Jesus as Savior is needed for entrance into Heaven.

That is the mainstream Christianity doctrine that I was referring to when i referenced the Vatican Library having documents, books and artifacts that would expose that as false. Myself and others are going by many reports from ex-Catholics over the centuries that have been close to the Vatican. You are taking the word of the Vatican Officials that there is no such evidence there. Both are unreliable in the end, so it's no use debating this further.

I think I now understand better where you are coming from; an "esoteric Christianity" that you claim is the essence of the teachings of the Catholic Church. This would certainly come as breaking news to all my old friends who grew up Catholic, went to Catholic schools, and never heard a word about astrology, alchemy, sacred geometry, ancient Western Mystery Schools, etc.

We're talking about Hermeticism here(with a Christian twist) and, If anything, the Catholic Church through the centuries has fought Hermeticism, it's offshoots, and the very ideas and concepts you have expressed in this discussion and on the other forums here. In point of fact, during the inquisition, you would have been burned at the stake for bringing up astrology, alchemy, etc., let alone defending it.

I think the evidence is clear that the Catholic Hierarchy, engineered from the Vatican, has fought to spread and defend it's power over people and nations, not to keep the flame of any ageless esoteric teachings that would free the individual spiritually.

This is not to cast aspersions on all Catholics. There are many fine people who are Catholic laypeople, and in spite of the pedophile scandals, many Priests doing good work in their parishes. I admire the Brazilian novelist, Paulo Coelho, a Catholic mystic, who says: "It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

I respect your lifelong research and study of metaphysical and spiritual areas, and you seem to have come to an understanding that satisfies you. But, for me, you're unsuccessfully trying to fit them into some supposed secret, underground teachings of the Catholic Church, that just doesn't jive with any known, or secret, history, myself or others are familiar with.

And, you have yet to tell us what you consider the "sacred scriptures."

William John Meegan said:

Michael:

I view secret societies different than Mysteries Schools though many modern secret societies claim to be mystery schools.

I believe that I mentioned quite a few times in my posts that there is no way to influence another in the esoteric teachings. No I do not convert anyone because that is not my onus: it is God's will how a soul seeks Him out.

I just don't get it about this belief from out of the hordes that the Catholic Church has documents (and I am not a Catholic defender) that would blow the lid off: OF WHAT EXACTLY? The teachings of Catholicism cannot be destroyed because they were constructed from the previous religions that went the way of the DO DO BIRD. Their teachings esoterically are the same as all the other major esoteric religions around the world. The Church's teaching came from the empyrean: the MONAD.

What are these people trying to say that they will get rid of corrupted Church officials? So what, new officials will be appointed. The leadership of the Church is not the teachings. The Church's responsibility is liken to the curator of a museum: they protect the integrity of the teachings. They literally have no other responsibility. They may want to think they do but the bottom line is that there is no other purpose for their continuous existence as an organization. I just don't get what would be annihilated by any revelations from documents. To understand that Catholicism is a compendium of all religions and mythologies on earth is no revelation: THAT IS A GIVEN. To understand that their were warmongering popes in the past so what is the difference from our modern presidents?? To learn that they committed untold war crimes: so what of Hitler, Stalin, Reagan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr., Clinton and the hold litany of war criminals. SO WHAT? How does that or any other criminal revelation negate the word of God?

I do understand that the researcher has to go beyond the pale to obtain what will meet his needs in obtaining knowledge of the esoteric science. For me I too have studied many of the Protestant sects and listen to their twaddle. I have also researched much of the occult and esoteric lore. My library is full of such materials, which I have learned a great deal from.

But know this: as much as I ventured into the peripheral teachings of the esoteric science: everything outside of the sacred scriptures and as much as I have learned from them, and still learn from them, it is but a shadow of what I have learned by honing my analytical abilities to the documents of antiquity themselves. All of that peripheral material are liken to notes and scraps of ideas used by the esoterist to prepare for writing the esoteric text. Those images and symbols have no contexts outside their ultimate use in the sacred literature of the world. To see an image or a symbol out of context without explanation has no meaning. But to see that same image or symbol codified esoterically to the text of the sacred scriptures is a thousand times more edifying. Do not get me wrong. It is necessary for the initiate to wade through the mythologies, lore and traditions of the world and the occult and esoteric materials so that he will have a database of knowledge to reference when he comes across it in the esoteric teachings of the sacred scriptures of the world. Without that database as a foundation he would not recognize what he was coming across in his researches.

The occult and present day esoteric lore that we are presented with is as if someone when into a sage's attic and discovered scrap books of ideas, images and symbols long after the sage had published his work and died. Now you may find a work by Dante Alighieri or the Rosarium Philsophorum or whatever and not know that all those images and symbols and ideas are codified to those works. What the attic searcher will take is not the completed published works but the scraps of ideas. "We humans stand on a whale fishing for minnows".

Michael A. Williams said:

William,

I must challenge on a few statements. You tell us not to look into "Secret Societies" or "Mystery Schools' and just rely on your research over many years. Nothing could be further from what to do. You've stated you're a Catholic, and this reflects the Catholic Church's position for centuries. It's obvious that the real Mystery Schools and Secret Societies have posed a power threat to the Church and they've tried to wipe them out time after time. (The Protestant Churches are no better, as they advise people not to study these either)

I say let people, if this is their chosen path, join and investigate, research and study any and all of the ancient Mystery Schools and Secret Societies, West and East, and decide for themselves. I think in the process they'll find there is much more to the metaphysical and spiritual life than the standard "sacred scriptures."

I don't say not to study the "sacred scriptures," which I assume you mean the New Testament. But, any study of that has to keep in mind that the Council of Nicea was a power play on the part of Constantine and the participants. They edited, revised, and misinterpreted(intentionally and unintentionally) what documents they accepted, throwing out what didn't suit their purposes.

As for the Vatican Library, I'm definitely with the camp that says there is hidden material there, books, documents and artifacts, that would blow the lid off mainstream Christiandom if they ever came to light. Obviously, as a loyal Catholic, you would deny such.

As for "secret teachings" being held by the Catholic Church, in this I'm sure you're right. There's nothing they would have in the form of "teachings" in the Western Mystical/Esoteric tradition that isn't already available somewhere that can be accessed by an interested individual.

Your book is probably worthy of reading for people interested in this line of inquiry. But, are you out to "convert" us to your style of Catholicism or to share your views and suggest that we consider them in a mutually respectful atmosphere?

Permalink Reply by Michael A. Williams on March 30, 2011 at 4:18pm

Christian,

To get back to topic! You might want to check out some of the works of William Henry. He's written on the "Illuminati" and related topics. He's listed on Amazon and his website is:

http://www.williamhenry.net

I'm not saying he has any final answer, but just another source of information.

Permalink Reply by Christian von Lahr on March 30, 2011 at 4:28pm

Thanks Michael, I will look into it.