The mosque in the Zero....(o la MOSCA islamica en la 'sopa' multicultural) you name it...
Let's be brave, and start a good discussion about the real meaning of tolerance - and I KNOW some people here in the site will have their skin shivered when I say this: WHAT ABOUT THE MOSQUE THEY WANT TO BUILD CLOSE TO THE 'ZERO ZONE' (or ground 'zero' for the US people)
It is still a touchy subject, some people you knewed and loved died there...but we cannot close eyes and ears, to years and years of killings in the name of 'liberty' that US has done in all over the world, I AM NOT JUSTIFYING THIS AT ANY EXTENT, any DEATH is a CRIME and as Theosophist you may know that.
But it is also TRUE that many people are not US citizens, and US has done - as a government not their people of course - a lot of problems in a lot of countries in around the globe. When is the Tolerance starts? as a very HEAVY KARMA - already been payed right now by US deaths in 9-11 and in this wars in Mideast, i would want the people here in the forum, as Theosophists, to face the touchy subject and tell me, the pro/cons of the decision Obama made, of starting the built of a Mosque there, close to where the extinct towers were.
I know that, as US citizens, will be more difficult to some of you to talk about this. Probably you lost some relative, some friend...but we cannot hide the fact, and remain discussions about lighter matters.
And in other parts of the world - like my Mexico - we have different points of view on the subject. WHEN the tolerance will start? Why? Do the younger people have 'more' tolerance' than the oldest? Do you live in a different "US" more tolerant, more narrow, what is happening??
I will attach this links to Mexican news from US that sometimes -as always - are blocked by main US media. probably you can find some good topic for discussion here....
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/ultimas/2010/08/22/manifestaciones-a-fav...
You can translate it with Google translator.
Not my intention to offend anybody. I know how hard 'political correctness' can be.
Cheers and Peace. We ALL deserve Peace. ALL.
Estrella
It is still a touchy subject, some people you knewed and loved died there...but we cannot close eyes and ears, to years and years of killings in the name of 'liberty' that US has done in all over the world, I AM NOT JUSTIFYING THIS AT ANY EXTENT, any DEATH is a CRIME and as Theosophist you may know that.
But it is also TRUE that many people are not US citizens, and US has done - as a government not their people of course - a lot of problems in a lot of countries in around the globe. When is the Tolerance starts? as a very HEAVY KARMA - already been payed right now by US deaths in 9-11 and in this wars in Mideast, i would want the people here in the forum, as Theosophists, to face the touchy subject and tell me, the pro/cons of the decision Obama made, of starting the built of a Mosque there, close to where the extinct towers were.
I know that, as US citizens, will be more difficult to some of you to talk about this. Probably you lost some relative, some friend...but we cannot hide the fact, and remain discussions about lighter matters.
And in other parts of the world - like my Mexico - we have different points of view on the subject. WHEN the tolerance will start? Why? Do the younger people have 'more' tolerance' than the oldest? Do you live in a different "US" more tolerant, more narrow, what is happening??
I will attach this links to Mexican news from US that sometimes -as always - are blocked by main US media. probably you can find some good topic for discussion here....
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/ultimas/2010/08/22/manifestaciones-a-fav...
You can translate it with Google translator.
Not my intention to offend anybody. I know how hard 'political correctness' can be.
Cheers and Peace. We ALL deserve Peace. ALL.
Estrella
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by EstrellaFugaz on
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because they love money better than a real harmony of people.
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Permalink Reply by Ferran Sanz Orriols on
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Well done, Joe!!!
I'm somehow also a Muslim, but from the S'hia branch. Within this branch of Islam there are esoteric teachings, and an esoterical tradition has been kept alive. Blessings!!! -
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Permalink Reply by Arthur E Gregory on
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Something tells me that history can have lessons for us.. The association for instance of early Theosophists with the Arya Samaj for instance.. It was not a "marriage" in heaven.
Wikipedia has an article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophical_Society_of_the_Arya_Samaj -
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Besides, everyone is capable of poor judgement, too much enthusiasm, or just plain not having a complete picture of a situation.
Yeh this could happen..be wise and aware... -
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Permalink Reply by Martin Euser on
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Ferran: What is the name given to the esoteric tradition in the S'hia branch?
Is it considered to be Sufi mysticism? Please elaborate a bit. -
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Hi, Martin!
I'm sorry I don't remember names. Henry Corbin has studied this tradition quite properly. Two years ago I met some people exiled from Lebanon that belong to this branch of Islam. It is not considered Sufi: Sufism belongs to the most spread branch of Islam, Sunna.
S'hia is esoteric Islam. Muhammad taught his adopted son, Ali. Ali taught his children, Hassan and Hussein, but due to political-religious persecution this tradition had to be hidden a li'l time after, and the Hidden Imams (teachers) became quite like the Mahatmas in theosophy. S'hia people mantain that Islam has not been yet totally explained. We wait for the Imam al-Mahdi, the Good Teacher who will teach justice to humanity, emergence. May Al·lah accelerate his work!
This is not a proper scholar elaboration, of course, but the testimony of someone who tries to keep faith alive. I mean faith in mankind, the difficult one.
May everyone listen to the Teacher that dwells in the Heart! -
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That reminds me of the Druzes of mount Lebanon. HPB wrote about her meeting with some learned Druzes. They had considerable esoteric knowledge according to her.
The name Corbin is vaguely familiar to me. Have to google him.
As for the waiting for the Teacher: everybody seems to wait for one: The Jews for the Messiah, Muslims for the al-Mahdi, Hindus for the Kalki-avatar, Buddhists for the Maitreya Buddha, Christians for the return of Jesus, and so on.
Unfortunately, this could be a long wait, till the end of the Kali Yuga (some 425,000 years or so to go). Before that there will be other teachers, and we will have to do our best to become a bit of teachers (and good students) ourselves! -
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Look up "Henry Corbin" the French scholar who translated much of the mystical writings.. however again many of these writings were not in favor by mainline Muslims and so some of them were forbidden or destroyed because many of the Sufis didn't follow the accepted Muslim practices. Hallaj was led around on a donkey and crucified for saying "I am Truth".. others were persecuted...
Druzes are fascinating to study.. but they're not considered Muslims.
Martin..could you find the source or reference that HPB met Druzes?
Martin wrote above:
The Jews for the Messiah, Muslims for the al-Mahdi, Hindus for the Kalki-avatar, Buddhists for the Maitreya Buddha, Christians for the return of Jesus, and so on.
Unfortunately, this could be a long wait, till the end of the Kali Yuga (some 425,000 years or so to go).
Some don't calculate the Kali Yuga that way ..some calcualte it ending in the nineteenth century suchas Sri Yukteshwar the Guru for Swami Yogananda. But I think you're on to something..there is a confluence if you will of messianic expectation. -
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HPB writes about the Druses in Isis Unveiled. I don't remember in which chapter she writes about her meeting the Druses. Could also be in Collected Writings. I found a link to an article of hers on Lamas and Druses.
The Druses also expected the end of the world, as so many others..
About the Kali Yuga. The first part of it, comprising a few thousand years, has closed in 1897, according to the theosophical heads (Quan Judge comes to mind). But the length of the entire yuga is 432,000 years according to the Hindu time reckoning, so quite a long way to go. I know Yogananda's teachings very well. I don't think his organization is the pinnacle of spirituality. His account of and comment on e.g. Theresa Neumann's "visions" make for nice reading, although suspiciously in line with the orthodox Christian vision. This criticism applies equally well to many semi-Christian belief-systems. -
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Don't get me wrong here as to Yogananda. After 35 years of research I haven't encountered a single spiritual oriented organization that could match my criteria of an up-to-date, no-nonsense, affordable qua membership , truly integrative (philosophy-spirituality-science) society. Not a single one. The organizations may have (some) nice people in their ranks, granted, but that is not the only criterium, of course.
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Also see http://www.theosophicalsociety.gr/english_site/biographies/blavatsk...Where you can find that HPB joined the "Druses of Lebanon", a secret society.
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1849-50 Left him and traveled in Turkey, Greece, Egypt, and France. She studied magic in Egypt with an aged Copt and joined 'The Druses of Lebanon,' a secret society.
Thanks for sharing that.. I hadn't seen that one before!
Sri Yukteswar's calculations on the Kali Yuga can be found in pp. 15-18 in "The Holy Science" -
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