Comment

Comment by Michael A. Williams on October 22, 2010 at 12:24am

Capt. Amand, hello. You touched on a concept Chopra and Hammeroff talk about in their videos on YouTube - what's embedded at the Planck scale. They are both fans of Roger Penrose. I won't try to summarize what they so eloquently explain, but just refer, once again, those that are interested to the site:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSEJ14auoxI&feature=related

You're right, how consciousness is defined is the focal point here. Most mainstream physicists don't want to deal with it directly, many even denying it even exists! I've read some approaches to the subject by physicists daring enough to tackle it. I'll take a look the book you recommend when I get a chance. One of the best I've read is Dr. Amit Goswami's "The Self Aware Universe," available at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Self-Aware-Universe-Amit-Goswami/dp/087477798...

Getting back directly to extra-dimensions, a Dr. Rick Strassman has done experiments with human subjects on DMT(one of the rare experiments with psychedelics wrote a allowed by the U.S. Government) and wrote a book, "The Spirit Molecule" about it. He has his own positive take on the other "worlds" experienced by his subjects.

As for Reductionist Science having its own methodology, you're right. This is a long subject, but simply put, I feel that until its paradigm and methodologies expand, and the measuring instruments get much more sensitive, its conclusions will only remain mathematical possibilities. As presently constituted, Reductionist Science will never admit to other realms, higher and lower, that have sentient inhabitants, can be entered into and out of, communicated with and so on.

I'll end here for the night. Obviously, there's tons more to be said about all this.

Comment by Capt. Anand Kumar on October 21, 2010 at 10:47pm

Hi Michael:

As I see it, the chief problem with scientific experiments and evaluation of such in the area of extra-dimensions/parallel worlds is how consciousness is defined...

"The Emerging Physics of Consciousness" - a collection of writnigs of modern physicists investigating consciousness is a must read, published by Springer, ISBN-13 978-3-540-23890-4.

A number of refernces in this book are are made to eminent scientist Roger Penrose's experiments contained in his book "The Emperor's New Mind", published by Random House, ISBN 009 977170 5.

Modern or Reductionist Science has its own methodology to investigate things. And, they are not far off from ancient wisdom in many fields. For Example, Roger Penrose conducted experiments to investigate, what he termed as "Platonic information system embedded at the Planck scale" , which closely resembles what is understood by many as "Universal Consciousness".

Reductionist Science has a disadvantage that it cannot give only clue, encrypteed information, deny information under oath of secrecy and be open to multiple interpretations. For example, the quoted sentence attributed to Jesus can be interpreted in many different ways. Esotericism apperas to have certain unfair advantage over Reductionist Science.

Comment by Michael A. Williams on October 21, 2010 at 10:20pm

Thanks, Jacques, for the info on Jean E. Charon. His work sounds interesting and may be along the lines of Dr. Stuart Hammeroff, M.D. He's associated with the University of Arizona and has been doing exciting work combing quantum theory, consciousness and biology. He has a number of video on YouTube. Below is a short one, in conversation with his good friend, Dr. Deepak Chopra, concerning "Lokas, Astral Worlds and Consciousness," which touches on parallel worlds in Vedanta and cutting edge quantum science Dr. Hammeroff is involved in. There are several other videos of two talking on similar subjects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSEJ14auoxI&feature=related

I'm hoping that Dr. Chris Holmes, who's a member of this site, will weigh in on this and give us a summary of what HPB wrote on extra-dimensions, as he seems to have reallydelved into the science in "The Secret Doctrine." Anyone else I also hope jumps in with their knowledge.

There are other scientists investigating this, but as has been pointed out, they are outside the mainstream of science and physics, unless, it seems they only present it as a mathematical model.

Comment by Jacques Mahnich on October 21, 2010 at 3:04pm

One french physicist (Jean E. Charon) devoted his career to develop such a theory where the "dance" of matter and spirit can be understood as an integrated way. He is the inventor of a new theory called the Complex Relativity, which is a continuation of Einstein works, and he came up with a global idea that all particles composing the matter of our Universe has a memory and a degre of liberty in its behavior. It also had an "order relationship" with the Whole. In summary, mental and spiritual properties are embedded in all particles. He wrote some 20 books on the subject. I do not know if they were translated in English. His last book which recap his theory is "Les Lumières de l'Invisible" - the Lights of the Invisible. ISBN 2-226-02464-6.
Of course , his works were not recognized by the scientific community...

Comment by Michael A. Williams on October 21, 2010 at 2:11pm

Anyone deeply involved in the esoteric mysteries, West and East, has already been aware of the existence of parallel worlds and extra-dimensions. occultists, Hermeticists, Mystics, Advanced Yogi Adepts, Vedanta Masters, and so forth, have written extensively on this subject for centuries. Albeit, using the language and metaphors of their time and culture. Even Jesus got into the matter, with the statement "In my Father's house are many mansions." A clear metaphoric reference to a multi-dimensional reality.

To wait for the physicists at CERN to come up with any validation any time soon will require some patience. It seems to me that mainstream science, namely physics, is playing "catch-up" with the insights of the Esoteric Masters, HPB being one among many. I agree with Mr. Mahnich that there are open minded scientists out there exploring the frontiers of "reality," but unfortunately they are in the minority. The kingpin/Pope of Reductionist Science, Dr. Stephen Hawking, states that he's summed the "all and everything" up in his new book "Grand Design." Mainstream physicists pretty much take their marching orders from him and that theory - if they want to get grant money or keep their jobs.

For a superb critical review and dismantlement of Hawking's "Grand Design," see Dr. Chris Holmes review of the book on this site. (If you have trouble accessing it, contact Joe Fulton for help)

As I see it, the chief problem with scientific experiments and evaluation of such in the area of extra-dimensions/parallel worlds is how consciousness is defined. In the present reductionist paradigm, consciousness is only an epi-phenomena of the brain/matter. In the esoteric school, which is gaining ground among cutting edge scientists as well, it that the brain/matter is an epi-phenomena of consciousness. In my understanding, this is a basic insight of HPB.

As an aside, if anyone knows of a good book that brings together both the traditional writings on ex-dimensions and the newest writings, I'd like to know.

Comment by Jacques Mahnich on October 21, 2010 at 10:19am

One need to be cautious not to fall in second-hand news and interpretations about scientific experiments. (The official site of the LHC is : http://lhc.web.cern.ch/lhc/).

Now, since the '70, where many new theories emerged, including the quantum field and the superstring theories, no real experimental results has been able to validate these concepts, including the 5, 9, 11, even 25 dimensions the superstring theory is requiring.
There are a lot of expectations with the LHC which can reach levels of energy which could revealed some of the particles need to validate the theory (including the standard model which is still lacking the Higgs boson).

The beauty of today' researches is that anyone can access to the informations in real time. The difficulty is that one need an enormous level of knowledge to follow-up and to be able to make his own mind.

Being a member of the American Physical Society since some decades, I have been immersed in the physical science research (as a witness), and I think that we are living a very fascinating period, compared to 120 years ago.Progresses, discoveries are speeding up and accumulating in most of the domains. And the today' scientists (at least some of them) are much more humble than previously . For exemple (I just took some wording from some scientist masters like Feynman) : "we do not know what is energy, we don't understand the energy conservation". This attitude gives the possibility for an openness which may allow a better approach to the understanding of the reality (or the illusion of the reality :).