Who Are the Gods?
We have several really good friends of this site from those who follow the life and career of the enigmatic personage known as Max Theon. Max Theon has a very long reach in the field of Western Occult tradition extending from his association with Blavatsky, Burgoyne and others to Mirra Alfassa (aka "The Mother") in the Sri Aurobindo tradition. His work is quite pervasive, while his actual involvement in many ways is mostly behind the scenes.
This writing is provided courtesy of Nicolas Lecerf through his fine site Greenmanscreations.com. For anyone truly interested in Western Occult Tradition, it's a great resource.
The direct link to the article is: Who Are the Gods
So with that, here it is. It's not easy material but it is a goal here to provide very high quality writings for those seriously interested to have something to ponder upon and from many different points of view.
Again, many thanks to Nicolas Lecerf.
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In order to refresh your memory and for back ground information about the Hostile(s) and other beings of the nervous realm and its disastrous implications to man kind, please check the key posts: ‘Immortality recovered by the restoration of the body of Glory.’ and its immediate follow up, ‘ Practical Advices‘.
The Cosmic Tradition is making a very clear separation between God (the One and Unique, the Formless) and the gods, shallow impostors and ever hungry parasites, deceiving us of our Royal Heritage, as crown of the Creation. The Cosmic Tradition claims that God, in his universal scheme is order, oneness and ever-flowing love and mercy, unlike the cheating gods, rebellious, chaotic, pale and tragic imitators; tragic, for mankind that is…
This post takes on the description of ‘who are the gods?’. It comes from the unpublished Cosmic typescript ‘ MAVB’s studies’ coming from our library, written by Max and Alma Theon and now being translated into English. It is simply horrifying, in a gurdjieffian’s sense of the’ Terror of the Situation’ (see ‘Belzeebub’s Tales’, chapter 26) and it invites us to a healthy and serious questioning and revisiting of our history and our relationship towards organized religions…Here’s why:
Painting by Johann Heinrich Füssli, ‘the nightmare’.
“ …The gods are beings, or also a part or parts of beings, dwelling in the spheres of the nervous body or the soul, and to which one of the beings of the more material inferior realm, the one of the body, have affinities. Therefore, that these gods are able, under certain conditions, to communicate with the humans through their conscious or un-conscious help. Out side of this ‘help’, the gods are for Man as if they did not exist, as it is that they cannot come to the threshold of his senses.
Communication with these beings or parts of beings is completely independent from truth and error, of order and confusion. For such communication, it is just needed to find on the lands those humans to which they have sufficient affinities to be able to influence them, so that they can use their voices or their writings; some humans of a higher level, will be able to hear them, and from their own free will, declare to their kind what they have heard.
Once these beings or parts of beings succeeded in communicating with Man, their success, more or less big, depends on their own intelligence and their own power and also of the terrestrial being that has become the conscious or un-conscious mean of those communications, signs or marvels. For their intelligence, the intelligence of the terrestrial being is the only thing needed; for their power and its manifestation, an aura of materialization is necessary, as they are themselves out of reach of the senses of Man, and they can, thus being ‘aurified’, achieved this, according to their knowledge and strengths, and execute signs and visible marvels.
These two intermediary conditions are not to be found together in one and only terrestrial being, as they are different in essence. The first belonging to the intelligence, the second to the physical strength. For the first one, a ‘passive’ is generally, but not always, chosen and for the second condition, an ‘active’ is also generally, but not always, chosen.
In such communications, the gods are completely dependent of Man, and outside of this medium, they don’t exist for him, but the terrestrial beings to which they are in affinities are completely independent of them because even though they manifest the intelligence and the strength of the gods, willingly and consciously, they can at all moment cease to do so; and no gods can obtain influence on a terrestrial being in order to force him to abide, consciously or un-consciously unless such a terrestrial being get into relation with him. However, in case of illness of the mind or the body and the weakness that results of it, some terrestrial beings may temporarily being influenced, if they are deprived of care and protection of their others fellow human beings.
As soon as a god is revealed in this manner, the mentality of those who, being the firsts, are taking him into consideration and then the mentality of those to which he declares his will, his laws and his might, who believe in him, worship him, obey him more or less, strengthen him, so that he doesn’t depend like at the beginning on one sole intelligence or on one materializing aura, but on several.
And the more the number of his adepts is great, and the more the quality of their intellectuality is rare, the greater the wisdom of the god. The greater the number of adepts is, the greater the common auric field is, the stronger are its materializations and more imposing are its signs and marvels, as without man’s strength of the intelligence and the aura of realization, no god, great or small, can manifest to him.
In the same way, you, O dear Amen Horus, have the conception of building the temple of the temples, cannot convey it to your people only but through stone, wood, metals, precious gems and beautiful tapestries, that are, all, the materialization of your mental conception.
Therefore, all gods and hierarchies- of which the glory, the might and the wealth is accumulating or decreasing in proportion of the worship they are being given are jealous one of each other. Each one desires to gain from Man the supreme worship, as its existence on Earth depends completely on him. In this matter, when Man will universally cease to worship any god, let him be the greatest in might and wisdom, this god could not do anything, not even get revenge from those who will make a mockery, a laughing matter, an abomination of his very name, if somehow, its very own memory does remain…
The gods are the universal, primordial, and most powerful reason for the division, for the contention, for the confusion and the hatred amongst humans and the more a god is of a higher, wiser and mighty order, the more violent is the jealousy of the other gods and the hierarchical helpers, jealousy that takes its root in fear.
Therefore, everything with the gods are alike the governors or the kings of the Earth, with the only difference in the duration that exist between the life of the body and that of the nervous body and the soul. Alike a governor, a king or those of his race, rule as long as he is supported by his fellow men and will fall into decadence when he is abandoned by them, the same is true for the gods.”
Then, I, Amen Horus, felt deeply afflicted and told to myself: Is there then any god of the Truth? Any to whom I will raise the temple of the temples? Anything bigger than my self to whom give my obedience and my worship? My pain was followed by a feeling of isolation as it was for me like the earth on which I was standing was shaking et cease to support me. I brushed away these troubling thoughts and continued to write, as the voice was not paying attention to me and was keeping speaking.
“ Even though, wiser and mightier that these beings or parts of beings called gods may be, their wisdom and their might are limited by the latent and active ones of the terrestrial beings that are the one and only mean of communication with Man. These intermediaries are composed in greater part of their entourage, so that the god’s manifestation has always been following Man’s evolution who with it evolution simply exceeded the ancient traditions of the gods, finding imperfect what his lesser evolved ancestors may have found perfect, unjust and without mercy what they found just and merciful, full of tangible errors what was for them truth, insane what was wise, natural what was supernatural.
It implies then, without discussion, that the manifestation of the gods is depending on the evolution of Man. And the gods who have manifested on Earth, with the help of Man, are of two natures: Those in favor and those against the restitution of man (into his rightful position and status in the Universe).
They differ from one other, as early as their first manifestation because, searching naturally the terrestrial beings to which they are the most in affinities, their intermediaries also differ like they differ themselves.
But as soon as their cult or worship has been established and that they are surrounded by a hierarchy, they find and develop their own Oracle or their own AYASHA and, by the mean of this oracle, proclaim the will of the god.
These Ayashas can be for or against the restitution of Man. The can be the intermediary of gods directly opposed to the Light they are supposed to manifest. Further more, the hierarchy, almighty, introduce rather frequently in the temple an oracle that has nothing in common with an Ayasha, but simply a woman of a lethal, morbid and unnatural nature.
The induce in her, by the mean of vapors, substances and drugs or by suggestion a kind of delirium or frenzy and her low voice mumbling or her delirious extravagant words are being ‘interpreted’ to the people according to their will, that is to say, according to the meaning that will best serve their goals. Hence confusion and chaos find their origin, their source in the very own hierarchy that is supposed to be the holder of the divine order.
One says that the subtler lies are often those uttered from the very seat of the Ayasha, supposed to be the very seat of truth.
In the realm of the not yet evolved intellectual mentality but in order, the gods are unknown; there where there is no disorder they cannot at any time manifest themselves.
Everything that is abnormal, that is to say un-natural is of the greatest disorder.”
Once again, I, Amen Horus, I was troubled and said: ‘ We have always declared that every division is imperfection. However, it has always been like that that the inferior lands (sic, realms) were separated and cut from all the other state (realms) of being.’ But the voice which was coming from within the water was speaking as if it was not hearing my words, although it did answer them by saying:
“ In the state (realm) of the intellectual mentality, this union that is order, in opposition to the division that is disorder, is the main and immutable purpose that tends every thing that exist, without straying, and it is for this reason that the gods are unknown there, because even a though would strengthen them and that these gods-may they be for or against the restitution of Man-are the immediate and most powerful cause of the confusion, the chaos, the un-naturalism and consequently of the division.
Because the knowledge of the gods is incompatible with Man’s knowledge. The god’s manifestation is Man’s isolation. Their exaltation is his humiliation, their wisdom his folly, their might his weakness, their rule his yoke, their life, his death.
All the gods, intrinsically, whether good or bad, are towards Man parasites that persistently weaken and soon or later destroy the very ones that they feed on the lives.
Through Man, the gods reached the Earth and through the gods death has set in. It is by the very Man that the gods must be banished from Earth and then, death would cease to exist, because the actual mortal part of Man, once in order again- a state of being neither greater or lower than another- will reclaim his right to immortality.
The banishing, without possibility of return, of all the gods is the absolutely essential clearing and there is no other way to reach again the firm rock of Order only on which may be layed the foundational stone of Truth.”
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Towards the immediate follow up of this post, check here :
’About the Passives, and the essential and complementary role of wom...‘.
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Notes:
1. Man, with a capital letter, is taken in the sense of humanity, man and woman. I will prefer using humans, human beings.
2. Active : man as gender
3. Passive: woman, as gender.
4: Passivity: State of receptivity and mode of repose, meditation, contemplation and trance in which the feminine elemement is prevalent. Mostly, the spiritual role of woman.
5. Amen Horus : Egyptian King to which the Aquatic immortal passive MAVB is revealing the truth about the gods and the role of women, the passives, as essential and complementary to the actives, Men, and their joint duty towards the universe.
6. the Aura - the aura is an atmosphere which proceeds from a person which it envelops. It is a trace of the body of glory casted off by the hostile.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hari Menon on
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Dear Joe,
I have read your post with an avid interest and do admit that you have mentioned that it is a Western Occult version , I have understood it quite well from most probable angles , but what is more fascinating to me is that I am also a bit unhappy that the piece does mange to inject some violence into the psyche . The flow of consciousness and the level of knowledge is very low almost puerile. I feel pained that Occultism in the Western Tradition actually allows such low level thoughts into its body of thought whilst trying to masquerade as an intellectual piece . This helps in just fostering superstition - and in this age it is really speaking inadmissible, when more and more people are endeavouring to a push towards the truth - it would amount to just a by lane where people may get lost in a crazy maze of anachronistic ideas . In my opinion any type of mysticism and occultism and esoterism can be dabbled in once a person has a firm grip on his self realization - in which case all these and many more things can be investigated into without an error in understanding. The above post contains millions of errors which point to the quality of the mind of the the gentleman who has actually got the temerity to dig up dead religions and gods who have failed time and again .Truth ,Truth,Truth and Truth alone is the bedrock of realization not fantasies and surmises or what one believes to be the truth . I can understand if this piece is an academic piece of writing done to gain a degree or doctorate in some vague university - but not if it is written by a responsible person who is looked upon by others for guidance .
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For a clear and correct view there are some preliminary things required relating to "Gods" after which the above post can be read and maybe some light be thrown on the above post. What we have to understand as human beings is that
1. The existence of other states of beings cannot be precluded.
2.Admittedly the Gods are beings .
3.Any daemon and higher beings do not possess bodies as man has but are nevertheless embodied - what it signifies is that
they are incapable of Physical action unlike a human being, and they are not subject to any physical physical ailments that man is subject to.
4.They however have action based on Will - in other words they use their will as action.
5.The will of the meanest daemon is always much higher than that of human beings as their will is accompanied with the circumstances peculiar to their state of being and so knowledge will be concomittantly different.
6.They do not eat food like us , then the natural question is what are their means of sustenance ? - It is love and recognition by a human being . It is our affection that enhances their powers and knowledge.
7.Now a word about knowledge - Man is the only creature that has an intellect that is capable of "Growing". When a man dies he dies with the intellect that he had at the time of death and no further development of the intellect takes place , he cannot assimilate knowledge in the areas of being which are solely knowledge based . In other words the person dies to attain a place of being which is the same as his intellect at the time of death .
8.So knowledge of being is utterly necessary if one has to make it to a knowledge based existence , other wise he attains to the worlds designated for the senses and enjoys the fruits of his actions and then repeats the cycle of birth and deaths.
9.The Lower spirits of the Psychic and Astral Planes who are mostly spirits of the types in pt.7 and 8 above once dead have memories of the body and a faint understanding though indistinct of the human body - but unfortunately they cannot gain to a human body without knowledge nor are they properly equipped to fully utilize the will at their present state of existence as they do not have the necessary knowledge since they lost their chance at gaining discrimination when they were humans,these are the worlds of mainly the human beings who have died and not progressed or have a yearning to be humans due to very vague inner feeling of solidity having been there once , these spirits have a downward movement very rarely these spirits can think in terms of higher existence conducive to their progress.They are the children of an area of nervous energy Psychics who have an abundance of nervous energy tap into this area . These spirits sometimes solidify in places where there is an abundance of tension like dark clouds, lightning, wooded groves which are overrun by vegetation houses made of wood or wooden furniture ,dark and sombre surroundings which raise nervous energy and fear in human beings . They "Crave understanding and Despatch" to better surroundings and are to be highly pitied . They are never malvolent it is a figment of human imagination . When a person meditates they are the first type of "higher beings' that one meets (we are taught that any being without a physical body is to be venerated and considered higher than a human being ). They are incapable of doing harm - they love a person who is involved in knowledge meditation and reflect whatever small knowledge that they have of their state of being so that we may progress and in turn earn merit and move out of such distressing circumstances. Everybody gains and communication is totally wordless and more of an elemental nature . They reflect our inner feelings as it will be percieved there and we in turn learn to sublimate fear , and other unknown feelings which they can pick up and display . These worlds are not bereft of an overseer , it is here that the 3 elemental gods hold sway - Earth,Water and Fire (but mostly it is Earth and Water ).Fire is a different matter .
10. Higher up are the worlds of Ancestors - it would be too long a dissertation .Suffice to say they are attached to each bloodline on earth by birth and confer benifits by willing for rememberances of them etc. This is a very huge area of knowledge.
11.Then come the Celestials - in meditations they give insight into the arts and sciences. Again here they do not require man , but they venerate a man who is engaged in knowledge meditation .
12.There are the worlds of Demi Gods .
13. There are the Gods of the Universal symbols.
14. There are the Areas of pure knowledge where one can see Sages and Masters .
15. There is an area of total undifferentiation which is the seed of all existence.
16. And finally Existence proper .
The Gods can intuit our intentions , it is only a matter of communication and exchange of knowledge , as we go higher - they have a very good idea of man and his circumstances - there are amazing displays of their knowledge whereby they make a person more subtler and inward and more expansive - they never consider man a threat , they show time and again various examples of different regions . It all depends upon ones inclination to believe and learn and progress . We can have insights into and visions of dead gods and civilizations which perished by the very fact they portrayed their gods over time as hit men and vagabonds more to be treated as offal. Mainly because of the forgetting to render prayers and remembrance of gods so as to keep their images in cosmic memory as pristine as it was when they first took form - not from mans mind but from the infinite. The age of a pralaya is when all the images become corrupt in mans mind . Which is why some cultures take pains to maintain a somewhat pristine image of the original by prayers and remembrances . For the Gods live on mans prayers it is their food and sustenance and power . Every religion has had this hierarchy and it is not of any one religion - but some have endured and many have fallen on the way . Man alone is responsible for everything .The knowledge of the Gods are sublime and all embracing , expansive and giving . Man alone is to be despised for what he has become - no god or spirit has done anything . Himself fully divine and has managed to attain to such base tendencies , it makes one ashamed to identify oneself as a human being , the lowest on the rung of evolution . What use language and literature ? of what use is the Intellect reason and logic ?. We hardly know the ambit or power of our 5 senses then what is the use of anything. In infinite consciousness everything is contiguous and there are no clear cut demarcations . We live in a world of utter hubris where we have intelligence but are unwilling to believe that our parents had any - let alone god .
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Dear Joe ,
I will attempt a point by point reply as you have suggested.
1. As the writer does emphasize the Formless and the "with forms'' - These are two different things one is Pure consciousness - and can only be known from the reflection in the intellect - the others are embodied and not quite the same . But he does a great disservice by equating the embodied spirits or beings to something straight out of the dark ages of mans history - It is wrong .
2. He speaks about realms and their behaviour - unless he has a clear idea of the methods of communication and the effective transmission of knowledge by a human being with a spirit he cannot comment on their behaviour- it would only amount to a mental ideanation of his based on insufficient personal experience or knowledge and applying it to the whole . The world you have to understand rests as an idea within them and not the other way around unless the conception and meditation has had the necessary ambit from our side .
3. The senses have their purview only within the meaning of physical objects - so then where is the question of disembodied beings ''coming'' to our senses .in meditation there is an assumption that the mind is the primary starting place and it is very easy to get in touch with these beings - the right means elicit the right response . How would a god understand if somebody tries to conjure up a malevolent spirit ? Unless the knowledge of deification is there it cannot be done . What will happen is that the participants mind will conjure to fool him and more so when he is not aware of the phenomenology that our senses are capable of .
4. Communication with them is a matter devoid of truth - whose truth ? Nothing is devoid of truth in such matters of the spirit . The truth of our existence is that it is contingent on their existence not the other way round . Truth has been stood on its head by the author of the post .
These are just some of the points it would take me days to go into each and every one - my broad views based on what the situation is has been mentioned in the other post . you cannot freely mix the two consciousness of the physical and the astral and try to explain through it - it confuses people - the rules of each level are different , the means of communicating are different and the bear no comparison . The author mixes up human behaviourial tendencies and superimposes them on a disembodied being - what use is mans wealth to them ? or our knowledge when all knowledge flows from top to bottom, their wealth is nature and its elements - Earth, water, fire, air and space not money , gold, diamonds oil or anything we can imagine of !!! These are basics of dissertation on the divine - our institutions mean nothing to them our education and intelligence they have no need as it is of an inferior nature !!. If asked I will answer to particular points .
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Dear Emmanuel,
God is matter of Individual belief - but gods are not a matter of individual belief they are an obtained reality . None of them are interested in Mans actions and Karmas and they do not intervene as it is not their business to do so . Man is fully responsible for his thoughts and actions . When a man realizes the Self or God he understands fully who the gods are and what they can and cannot do as there is such a thing called divine intelligence and knowledge . Whether we allude to them or not is a matter of our beliefs but the Truth is something else . There are reasons why the Sakhyamuni did not bring in any hierarchies into Buddhism proper , but the story of Buddhism is another matter altogether and not within the scope of this post.
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Dear Emmanuel ,
There are presiding deities for certain things in a human being , but it would be a gross injustice to limit them to the size of a body - in which case you might just as well use the words senses etc. Scientific temperment is what is called for - mostly people do not understand and they compare laws and structures and strictures and codiciles to things divine - it is human stupidity only. Every wise man who has realized the self insists that one must have a scientific temperment in matters of the soul , but people think science is all about evidences, and proofs - it is the true adventurers curiosity unbridled and enquiring a willingness to accept new boundaries and work in a clinical manner with an ideal in front . Most of the great scientists never "went out looking for '' a specific thing - they had a senses of enquiry and a keen intellect and bigger hearts , Edison ,James Watt, Logie Baird ,and a whole lot of people including Einstein they always never invariably profited during their life time like great philosophers - always they had the ideal that to what extent it would be life enhancing . You can never substitute scientific temperment with laws - Knowledge becomes demonstable and then it becomes a science proper and if the genisis of science any science for that matter is taken it is divine inspiration - for very few set out to ''invent'' - they set out to test the validity of a thought that arose within them for whatever reason . But unfortunately these days of canned knowledge and tags everyone is a scientist or a philosopher . Scientific temperment is a must in God realization - but science is not .The less of such a temperment one has the more esoteric he becomes and the more difficult to confer direct experience . Every single thing in the inner world can be experienced in extended form once it is transmuted into knowledge for it is the Truth of the Infinite , the Infinite is pure Knowledge and so are we .
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