Virgin Birth
New member, and new theosophical student W.W. Tuck has asked a question about the Virgin birth of Jesus. Where in theosophical literature would you direct him, as he has access to the library near where he is. I know the Secret Doctrine contains much, beginning in Volume I, Stanza II, number 6, which is on page 61 of the paperback version. Twenty three other references are found in the index, but I believe Mr. Tuck would like to discuss this.
Who will be the first of us to launch this sincere inquiry from a neophyte?
Who will be the first of us to launch this sincere inquiry from a neophyte?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Eldon Tucker on
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Here's an online article on "The Virgin Birth":
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/jesus.htm
There are many possible meanings to "virgin birth". The simplest is that the birth did not originate from the sexual union of a man and a woman. The birth was made to happen by an intervention in the normal human procreative process.
Another meaning is that the birth resulted from the union of a divine or higher being taking on a human woman. We find this happening in many places including Greek mythology and eastern religions. The child is part mortal and part divine because of his or her parentage. This is usually interpreted symbolically.
Another type of "virgin birth" might refer to the highest class of beings existing in a world, like the Kumaras. Picture our earth as existing on a series of planes, each plane and its inhabitants lower than the next, the bottommost being our physical world. Each class of beings gives birth to the class below it. But the highest class appears to have appeared without anything higher having given birth to it. It appears to gave given birth to itself, to be parentless, to be virgin born.
Yet another slant on "virgin birth" comes from the idea of karma and self-becoming. With each successive lifetime, we are the person we've made ourselves, a small portion showing up in our external life and the rest as inherit tendencies awaiting an opportunity to show themselves outwardly. At any point in time, we are created out of that endless chain of causes stretching back to the beginning of time (the start of our world as we know it). An Avatar is an incarnation of a divinity at certain times and places in history when humanity is in need of special assistance. Such a being is temporary, having a beginning and ending, but without any history of karmic causes in our world. He or she is a "visitor" and could be considered a "virgin birth" since he or she has no karmic history acting as parents.
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Permalink Reply by Susan Thomas on
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Thank you Eldon, well said.
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Permalink Reply by Mikhayl Von Riebon on
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This last bit about Avatar's i think is very interesting, i havent heard that notion before, that a being could be born out of the whole karmic situation as a means of balancing that karma out. this explains a problem ive been having trying to understand Neo's role in the matrix. thanks
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Permalink Reply by Andrew W. Smith on
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That's the reason the Muslims believe that Jesus was created in a virgin womb, but there was NO sex involved: "It beseemeth not the majesty of Allah that He should beget a son."---Qur'an. The "Mormons," however believe that "God" did have sex with Mary as well as a lot of other women, not particularly on this planet. Go figure!
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Permalink Reply by Katinka Hesselink on
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I think few theosophists take the virgin birth literally. I personally don't think it's likely that Mary conceived a child without having sex with a man.
In Isis Unveiled (vol. 2, p 209) Blavatsky talks about the various examples of virgin births. She uses it as an example of how themes in Christianity are shared with other religions.
On page 110 of Isis Unveiled (vol. 2) she says that the only reason the Roman Catholic Church stresses the immaculate birth, is because otherwise that faith would turn into something like Protestantism. The effect is to turn Mary into a goddess (though of course not officially). Which also explains why Mary herself is said to be of 'immaculate birth' (without sin).
Looking at this whole doctrine it's impossible to ignore how important Mary is to the whole structure. She had to be portrayed as divine to be a reasonable source of the Savior.
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Without "original sin" there is no way that Mary could have had an "Immaculate Conception." Drop original sin from Catholic theology and the whole thing collapses like a house of cards. That's where Protestantism came from basically, even though some Protestants still believe in original sin but deny that Mary was the "Mother of God."
Incidentally, sharks, for one, are known to have self-insemination, thus "virgin births."
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Permalink Reply by Konstantin Zaitzev on
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> I think few theosophists take the virgin birth literally.
Yes, very many deny it as a superstition, and in the same time believe that mahatma letters were materialized in closed boxes and cushions!
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Permalink Reply by Jon Knebel on
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A couple of years ago there was a story about a pair of female Komodo Dragons laying fertile eggs without having any contact with males. The process is called parthenogenesis and is considered quite rare in the animal kingdom.
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Just as one item of trivia, the rock group "shriekback" is, so far, the only group to fit "parthenogenesis" into one of their songs: "nemesis." That's where I learned what it meant. LOL
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Permalink Reply by Martin Euser on
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Another theosophical take on this is the following: Madam Blavatsky repeatedly speaks of Mary the Mother as a symbol for Higher Manas (the pure mind, undefiled by earthly desires, supra-personal mind). The Christ principle is seen as the enlightenment principle, the light of buddhi ( Love and spiritual discrimination), born or expressed through the higher manas. Taking the fact into account that a (relatively) pure mind is necessary for the manifestation of the spirit within, one can say that Jesus as Christ is born (on the appropriate plane of existence) in a virginal way, unspoiled by worldly desires. Blavatsky speaks of this on several occasions. Writing from memory, I think Key to Theosophy is a good start for studying some of these matters. The esoteric papers of HPB contain some clues too.
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Permalink Reply by michaelcarlo on
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How about artificial insemination, not like the octo-mom, but by E.T.'s that then remove the memory of said conception and seed Humanity with created hybrids.
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Permalink Reply by Anton Rozman on
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Dear Susan and all,
When seeing your post and following replies I got an idea that maybe we could create the Questions and Answers section about spirituality, theosophy, … and in that way additionally stimulate interaction between members. Actually, if we could add on main page a questions submitting form, we could possibly extend this interaction to the visitors of the Theosophical Network web site and even to the visitors of all web sites we are running. It could go something like this:
Everything you always wanted to know about spirituality, theosophy, … but were afraid to ask! Submit your question:
Warmest regards,
Anton
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