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Permalink Reply by Jeffrey Smart on October 20, 2012 at 11:27pm

I like to envision karma as something akin to habit or attitude.  A way of thinking and behaving, a way of interacting is developed over a life time and would probably carry along with us to future lives.  If we think negatively we will live negative lives and this carry over to future lives until we learn differently and develop better spiritual and mental habits.  Our thoughts and attitudes create who we are and are a testimony to our character, this is perhaps why wise men and women of ages past have always warned us not just about our actions but about how we think, and what forms our intentions.  This is a very intersting subject, indeed

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Permalink Reply by Capt. Anand Kumar on October 20, 2012 at 11:34pm

The cause and consequence based theory of Karma is a product of the linear thinking process. Firstly it assumes that every cause must have a consequence, while there is no evidence or proof to support it. Secondly and most importantly it ignores the observer's relative position in Time. So, to a neutral observer what would appear as cause at one point in time may appear as consequence in another. 

The Hindu Realism defines Dharma as the principle of motion and Karma as the motion itself. This simple definition may appeal to some. 

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Permalink Reply by Hari Menon on October 21, 2012 at 6:56am

Dear Jessica ,

        There are 3 things envisaged apart from the Soul (or Self) they are Form ,Name and Action . So it excludes all beings other than human beings . Ability to reason lies at the root of all actions other than the acts of Sleeping.Dreaming,Waking,Eating ,Procreating and Defecating this is common to all mobile and sentient creatures . Man alone is the entity that can do purposive actions and use instruments for the carrying out of actions. Inculcating knowledge so as to provoke action in another and develop his ability to reason and has language that affords the development of both the Arts and Sciences within him. Now the Action that we see people doing or what we attribute as them having done is based on two things perceptional evidence and inference (of the intent or motive where it is more important ). No third way exists. THis manifested action and its results we popularly call Karma - but within the law of Karma itself there is an understanding that the manifestation is the last part and is  insentient since it is done with the body and comes last . Prior to the action there is thinking or thought on a particular course of action thus thought is at the root of all bodily actions (but not vice versa) since a thought of an action which subsequently is not carried out has no effect . Now underlying each thought we have a feeling , it is a feeling which we have and is translated into thought so the action or Karma vis a vis thought is feeling and at the root of every thought is feeling. The action here is thus - a feeling arises within us and it provokes a thought within us which may or may not become a manifest action . But the root of a thought is feeling and there is an "Action'' by us wherein we have translated the feeling into a thought . This transformation of feeling which is at the root of all thoughts is an action and is also within the purview of Karma , the last and most subtle stage is every feeling arises within us due to  some particular knowledge (which arises in the general BEFORE) the feeling .It is this knowledge that gets converted to feeling - so there is an action inherent here as knowledge is at the root of every feeling and we are only too sadly aware that our knowledge is dependent on our personal nature and not on a knowledge of knowledge or an understanding of knowledge . So action that manifests itself has been considered as being defective and incompatible with knowledge . Since underlying the knowledge we have and bring to bear on our feelings thoughts and actions is the knowledge of myself  and the bundle of convictions and assessments we are our predilictions and prejudices all taken together and what we call ourselves. Of course it can be argued that my knowledge and myself are separate - but how many of us actually do that ? We consider ourselves as a growing entity including memories and my knowledge and conditionings . For if one were to consider ones knowledge as something else apart from himself then he would himself not be there to that extent , and then to whom is that knowledge useful and for what ?.All man made phenomena and natural phenomena that has come to us as knowledge  from and as apart as objects can and must be distanced by us back into our memory so that that very same knowledge will automatically be picked up and be efficiently executed without our involvement - though it may look to another that the person has done it - in essence he moves intutively . And when he moves intuitvely he becomes incapable of doing some actions which are not recognized at the level of the Intellect and mind ie. his bodily actions undergo a regulated lifestyle - killing , maiming another and other things do not exist in the mind and intellect unless one by sheer force of nature forces oneself to such actions by the simple feeling that he is the body . This is the solidification of ego and denotes people of Tamasic or Evil temperment . 

Now what is all this ultimately leading to would be a natural question - what is required is that we have to ''Align' the mind and intellect and listen inwardly to ourselves when we conduct our business in the world

Karma has two sisters that are subtler than her - Dharma and Rta . it is also necessary to understand Karma fully well 

Briefly : Water has the dharma of coolness and it flows downward . the dharma of fire is Heat and light , - any fundamental deficiencies in a things dharma means it is not that thing it has undergone transformation . Any change in its properties means that there has been Agency brought on either Natural Agency or by Human intervention . Evaporation by sunlight is one thing and by human agency means an instrument is required , 

Rta is the power by which everything stays as it is - the coolness in water and the light in fire - one does not overlap into another - fire does not become water , earth stays as such  and other things like gravity , arcs in infinity , solar systems and their movements , why the sun or anything for that matter do not drop down into infinity or a chasm .

Karma is ruled by dharma and dharma by Rta each latter word denoting a more subtler and pervasive principle. Rta rests on truth as it is infallible and consistent and is a rule of the infinite relating to itself . 

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Permalink Reply by Hari Menon on November 5, 2012 at 1:40am

Dear Jessica ,

     All your above points are quite valid . It does not matter - In whatever I write Jessica you have to disregard those things which may not be helpful to you. Otherwise they may confuse you . 

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Permalink Reply by Hari Menon on November 5, 2012 at 3:45am

Dear Jessica ,

           I would like to point out that there is a principle called "Subtleness and Pervasiveness". That which is subtler in construction will be more pervasive. Space is a subtle element as it is so subtle as to ''hold'' all other things . It is so subtle that it is almost like an ''Idea'' and the existence of an object does not mean that there is no space there. In fact for anything that is composed of matter or is physical in nature or has form - space is a prerequisite for its appearance . There cannot be any object where there is no space . It does not attach itself to any object nor is there any dimunition in it by way of an object occupying space nor any increase in space by the non appearance  of any object

in it . One cannot apply the terms inside or outside to space a it has neither since it is formless and uniform through and through . In fact all humans are for a fact ''pervaded'' by space both inside and outside . So I hope that though we may for a scientific fact know conclusively that there is hardly any place within our bodies as it is chock full of organs and body parts , still be correct in inferring that space too pervades us and that we are (ie human beings in particular) a thing that includes space amongst the many things that go on to make up a body. But space is insentient. Now this statement on space being insentient may be a point of contention , and might also arguably be something if not handled with care a very meandering and worthless exercise . How do we know space to be insentient ? Sentient means endowed with consciousness in the physical sense of the word and in Metaphysics it means being endowed with a mind . And in higher metaphysics it means having an intellect , As with the word "Space" in metaphysics there are two parts to the word "Metaphysics'' because not everything that is sentient has a mind (like plants and trees which are organic but they do not have the full five senses ). So they are not under sentient beings same way not everything which has an intellect can reason so they though sentient (since one cannot have an intellect without a mind and a mind means the potential for it to develop is there yet cannot be brought up to the stage of a fully developed one and the intellect is devoid of the ability to reason  or ''reflect knowledge''). Many insects , worms, crustaceans and animals come under this category . There these plants and animals lives are dictated purely by the circumstances they find themselves in - they ''adapt'' in a primitive way depending on their immediate needs , this is the root of all existensialistic theories  . In man however he can change his surroundings (I mean the individual not the group ) if he does not like it - he has volition and ability to reform and evolve (not just ''adapt'') . There is a constant endeavour from within himself to improve his human estate if he so feels  , not just live in a pathetic and existensialistic manner. So man is a higher type of animal since reasoning is involved and moreover reasoning is always dependent on a few other ''Qualities'' - really speaking these are not qualities but are part and parcel of reasoning viz. Knowledge and Intelligence . Intelligence as everyone knows does not allow for a negative connotation of the word . Now both intelligence and knowledge are inherent in the working of the Intellect . There is no intellect if either are not there or is not used properly and as a consequence the intellect fails the man or vice versa. So all these are are subtler than space - each succeeding principle (for one cannot tie or bottle them up - one can only try to enter into their mysteries by seeing them as an Idea and then cogitating or meditating on them jointly or separately ) being more subtle and pervasive than the other . You have to see them as an Idea within yourself - not something that is outside - since in infinity which has no points or directions or boundaries every point (if concieved as such ) is the centre of infinity . So the centre of the universal mind, memory, intellect, knowledge everything is within you (each one of us with respect to each of us ) not anywhere else . This according to the principle of subtleness and pervasiveness. So basically what transpires is that there is equal intelligence and knowledge within each one of us and uniformly but we choose to employ them as we wish and as we see in our small perspective which is the problem . It is a puzzle that each one of us has to solve ourselves in the best possible manner . It is the same with Nature - I can hazard a guess - cosmic nature is impersonal and is not bothered about any distinction between its creations when it rains or there is an earthquake or a volcano it happens without any favour towards plants animals birds or man . All are equal . The beauty in nature is our own foolish aristry and lying to oneself without facing things squarely in the mirror. But nature is also subtle cosmic nature and human nature has three divisions of light and knowledge , of activity , and of idleness .Underlying both the cosmic and the individual nature are these three states which keep moving dynamically and never at a stasis. Propitiating the gods or Yagna or sacrifice is a mental attitude that defines a persons intent . Because consciousness changes according to the collective will (but whether a person has cosmic will or individual will depends ). Here intent behind the action is what is most germane and more importantly - what is the knowledge brought to bear on that action , what level of inelligence was involved and by whom . Collective and sporadic activities indulged in at times by various groups and peoples have no value since intent is the requisite and in most cases in such collective activities intent is sorely missing as proper knowledge is lacking in the adherents - for intent has to have the ''consistency of clay '' . One cannot help a bystander one moment and then go home and treat his children or parents or spouse in another manner . Natural laws of justice or Jurisprudence as embodied in ones own intellect (as the faculty of judgement) will prevail and the person suffers for the inequity he has meted out . All what I have written are actual happenings from ones own intellect , and as they subside the larger picture emerges that is all - it is nothing really. Why countries suffer , why a person suffers , why people are born with handicaps , why people are born with faulty instruments , why societies vanish as well as cultures and religions , what will be the result of actions by a section of people indulging in violence and so many .........one becomes indifferent to those also .....to stop knowledge in the manifest so that better knowledge of oneself maybe gained to is  the great challenge for the individual  !!!!!

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