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Permalink Reply by Hari Menon on October 26, 2012 at 11:56pm

Dear PLJ,

    Everybody exists ,the self is not something to be attained somewhere in the future , it is ever present and attained. The self realization that everyone talks about is the actual experiencing of the oneness of everything that exists . This experiencing and living after this experiencing does not preclude ones life on earth with a body . Knowing this fact and experiencing are two different things . In all experiencing we have to understand that just as the world is known by the five senses (Smell,taste,seeing,touch and sound ) we have other inner appendages too The Mind , Memory ,Intellect and the ''I'' sense within us and lastly Existence . To actually ''experience'' a thing we have to come to know of it by an action of any of the forgoing instruments that we have . One cannot ''become'' what one already is , and Existence being a pure concept - it means we are already that . It is a rule that nothing can be an object of its own search - So now the big question is what is that all these people have been realizing ? and what is it that all have been trying to attain to by various practices if one cannot know oneself since one is already oneself . Liberation or salvation or any such thing does not pertain to the self , it is eternally free and unbound - Liberation occurs to the ''I'' feeling within oneself  and not to the Self.

So basically no actions are required to become the self , but some actions are required in a certain direction in order that we may experience our true nature other than the one that we know us to be . Again Pure existence has no need to know itself - it is unbroken , homogenous and without parts . Just in case you are interested the words Consciousness,Knowledge,God,Intelligence, and Truth and also Will can be used interchangeably as all these are not different words but signify the same thing .  It may not be easily apparent to a person without explanation that a pure concept is used to denote something that cannot be described by words as it does not possess a Name,Species or Genus or parts within itself . Because of our penchant for words we automatically ''assume'' these words to be like other words and give ''colour'' to these words and use them as if they are objects of perception by the senses . No - they are not, since all pure concepts are words designating non -objects (ie that which is not describable ).  All pure concepts have the same indictions ie. they are known by themselves, are homogenous and not admitting to parts , does not have a Genus or species , lines cannot be ''assumed'' in them , and they are incapable of movement and are all pervading  like space , the super imposition of any object in them does not mean that they are non existent (like objects in space) , just as space in unmoving so too these and these are more subtler than space since they pervade space too. Space is an object of perception "in reverse" unlike the first three elements Earth,Water and Fire which can be touched and seen and experienced in a gross form. These are called the physical or material elements since they are a matter of direct perception (of the senses) the other two higher and subtler elements are Air and Space as they are known as knowledge elements - they are not directly perceived by us through the senses - then how do we know about air and space - it is through ''inference''. Air is latent throughout the atmosphere and though we do not feel any movement on a still day we still know that air is present - it has to be ''agitated'' to materialize . And space is more than the inference as there is an automatic ''knowing'' of space (no inference is involved here) since it is a consciousness of space . So we know in daily life the five senses (which are internal and known to the mind) and we know the 5 elements in a gradated manner - 3 elements by observation, 4th element by inference (wind blowing etc) and 5th by Consciousness (knowledge ). These are succeedingly subtler and every higher and subtler element hold the other element in a latent state within it ie. what is subtler pervades the lower element. So PLJ when you say knowledge or ascertain its worth you have to have a very good idea of the following are you talking of a mixture if so then it would lead to contradictions and doubt 

Knowledge through the Senses (perceptional evidence - 3 lower elements). (objects)

Knowledge through Inference ( Reasoning faculty)  (non object - object)

Knowledge through Knowing (Consciousness of things ) (non object but knowable ) 

 So there are no breaks in infinity or in created things - it is contiguous (knowledge I mean ) - this has to be another understanding - there is no ''sharp'' cuttings and corners in nature it is more rounded and one melds into the other and sort of "morphs'' from one  element to another and so too our knowledge morphs  which is why we can mix theories etc and make wild assumptions and presumptions . But if we observe as with the world we ''force'' knowledge that is truncated 

and the easy gliding between the senses to the mind to the intellect is not there . It is more like a downtown business district with very sharp and different architecture almost as if like a mad mans mind with cacophony only . Substance is lacking.  (I have digressed just to get home the importance of the final part of your question ) . Molecules cannot know molecules , atoms cannot know atoms , vapour cannot know vapour , spae does not know space - But man alone  can know himself - his true nature his self . No instruments or theories can know themselves but the person using them can know himself - if he is not interested in knowing his true nature he will only know a theory or validate his own suspicion or know about an instrument only as if it were ''another object'' . it is here that the ''I'' ness feeling has been to be found to be more subtle than all things as it is the knower of all the preceding knowledges written above. This ''I'' feeling in oneself has to be DECONSTRUCTED to its constituents which have grown upon you by an aggrandization of various objects of knowledge , Identification with society that you belong to, country, institution,religious ego, pride in learning, pride in history of man (which unfortunately is mans account of himself), pride in ones ownership of a car , items of happiness, children, philanthrophy, community, learning, ones parents , possession.  You have only to closely comb through your post and wonder how mant ways you have used the ''I'' - is it you who is talking or the Self talking ?. ........Hope I have been helpful......Good luck. 

 

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