Got My Belief! Now Dig in and Fight or Flight
A post was recently added to the Theosophy Network on Facebook. It went something like:
1. what are the teachings of Theosophy.
A: generic, depends on individual etc.
2. how do you know they are true.
A. each person decides... . BTW: What do you believe in so we can answer your questions better? (That last was ignored by the poster)
3. What happens after death?
A. depends on one's religions etc.
.
. continues
.
....
after about a month of this, we were finally left with a long post consisting of a "Statement" about the person's private belief system. basically another case of "the Bible is the only True scripture and says so": quote, quote, quote, (a long post)
(Note: At that point - the person left)
Other times, the Answer/Diatribe is Islamic, Buddhist, Blavatskyan etc.
The "Diatribe and Run" happens, independent of the religion.
So why do people start a conversation, trying to dig up dirt on a group, dump a bunch of statements and then "Run"?? A belief seems to be a consistent inate need by any individual. Even Atheism is a "Belief System." However - some get past the first answer and quit, quite happy to accept the first "Belief" and others do not. Some go beyond the "Easy" and pursue the Quest for Truth. Others just stop, and dig themselves into a trench for the War of Belief. It is almost a Paranoia of the "Search for Truth" mentality.
the Question I have is this: What is the deeper Psychological piece of mind, defect or not, which drives these two responses? the Explore, or Ignore - I'm right.
(It happens so frequently, one is left to believe it is not cultural, but psychological at nearly a genetic level).
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jeffrey Soule on
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I think it goes to conditioning. Our society reinforces that everything you need is external--your physical wants and your spiritual as well--by adopting a system, we never have to look inwardly. People spend so little time understanding themselves because they believe that the physical world is the truth and they are not encouraged in any way to question that basic structure. nothing in our society reinforces the notion that there is value to looking inwardly. Even the professed xpians pay no real attention to Yeshua's exhortation "if you do not know yourselves, then you are in poverty, and you are poverty" Gurdjieff got it right--people go through their entire life asleep. Nothing to be done about it other than working on ourselves and eventually there will be an evolutionary change.
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Permalink Reply by Seth Edwards on
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Delving into this mentality's deeper psychology is a brilliant thing to do, and I thank you for bringing it to our attention. I'd love to see us make progress into figuring out what motivates these actions. However, I don't think its truly genetic alone, for I myself used to be a die-hard Christian Baptist in my youth. I would have been the one to do the "Diatribe and Run," even though now I like to think of myself as simply an explorer. If it was genetically ingrained into our thought structure, my mind-set would never have changed.
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Permalink Reply by Capt. Anand Kumar on
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Thanks John. The question posed has more to do with human behavior than the genetic make up, IMHO.
While there is sufficient evidence to show that DNA is programmed to exchange information with the environment and change itself accordingly (i.e create new sequences within it, alter existing sequences etc.), the human behavior in general does not reflect it. Our value system puts a premium on not only consistency of thought but also on focusing the mind on a single thought, pursuing a singe goal etc. All classic symbols of linearity.
In a survey conducted on over 600 freshly diagnosed cancer patients during 2001, of which I was a part, when the oncologist spoke the word 'treat' to the patient, 88% actually heard and remembered "theek ( a Hindi word, synonym of cure)". This was part of an effort to understand how to improve the doctor patient communication, but brought out the stark fact that people are more likely to accept communication which is consistent with their own existing belief system. In this case, "I cannot die". In short we are the Prisoners of our Memes. Both, those who believe that we are walking through life sleeping and those who believe otherwise.
Few discussions on the facebook transcend triviality. It is great fun though.
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ModeratorPermalink Reply by John on -
Thanks for the Cancer Patient study. That is really interesting. I appreciate it.
as to:
>> While there is sufficient evidence to show that DNA is programmed to exchange information with the environment and change itself accordingly (i.e create new sequences within it, alter existing sequences etc.), the human behavior in general does not reflect it.
The above I am very glad you mentioned it. Certainly in other species it does happen. Animals (thinking fish here) can have a visual trigger that will reflect into an entire activation of a gene sequence which changes behavior, Physical characteristics (Color, size and sexual development), and does so rapidly. Furthermore, it can happen only to one in a tank (that of the same set of undeveloped males) due to an event in another tank. The junk DNA is the majority in our species, and to have an environmental input which activates an entire sequence of radically different genes should be able to happen. I think some of the Twin studies may reflect this, at least in behavior. The changes then becomes permanent, unless another event flips something else. i.e. we may be a product of our genes, but we can have an event (religious experience, is what I am thinking) that radically alters thought patterns. Clearly though, we do not see this often. However, we know little when one comes down to it.
Above is speculation based on some well-known facts. I think this can happen to sexual orientation and sexual identity possibly. (example only).
In any case adaptation is key and can't be ruled out. Enlightenment does do something - right? The mind is the most malleable. (MHO, and most stubborn. (??)
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ModeratorPermalink Reply by John on -
must be some way to link into the FB comments. especially since the original poster referred to has returned. (unusual.. I think). There are several spinoffs too. hmmm.
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Thanks John. PS and I will look again to see how facebook comments can be linked. Our last effort did not succeed.
Here is a short video explaining how genes adapt to the environment.
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ModeratorPermalink Reply by John on -
The FB issue is one I keep waffling on. Some days, I wonder if it would be a bad idea. Another big spybot. sigh.
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Just spent some time going through all the 66 comments. Going by the number of comments this must be our most popular discussion on the facebook till date. This is a fabulous material for psychological study.
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Permalink Reply by Alex Kravets on
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Beliefs - is matter. Need to build a new mental matter for the mind. It takes effort :) If new mental matter better than the previous matter, the person (his lower Manas) gladly accepts new matter
That is why we admire the truly new (creative) information. And there is old information. Such information is grist to the mill of the old beliefs. And the wheel is spinning in a circle.
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I find myself drawn to the belief that "thoughts are things" too.
What makes mental matter "better?" Is it that this new matter allows us to function more easily in the world, or is it that its closer to truth? And how would creativity fit into all of this if what is "better" is what comes closer to truth? Wouldn't real truth be unalterable and unchangeable, and thus beyond creativity? Just some crude questions for thought.
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I'm still learning English ... :)
Cognition essence of the phenomenon from different perspectives. Playback (on the physical plane) of new knowledge (new knowledge for the physical layer). Playing in new forms. Really new, and not well forgotten old.
Languages in which you can create new forms very much. Poetry. Music. Philosophy. Psychological theories. New services. New Products. Programming..... In any language, you can create something truly new.
Forms - is (abstractly) different parts of a big elephant. We all live in the parable of the elephant :) We can open the same part of the elephant, which has already been opened before. But we can discover new parts. This is creativity
In the beginning, we must learn to distinguish the wheat from the chaff. Essence of the phenomenon from the name of the phenomenon. If people learn this, the creativity comes out from everywhere
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ModeratorPermalink Reply by John on -
so what explains the predominate feature of human thought where the majority of people get "set beliefs" (even Hinduism) that they refuse to change their opinions - at all cost - ??
They see their belief as explaining everything. No change can take place. They will fight for it or flee from change. why is that scenario of human nature found so easily within the mind?
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