In the Patanjali System of Yoga or Ashtanga Yoga as it is known (viz. Yoga consisting of Eight sections) there is among the many sutras one particular sutra towards the end of the discourse - (I am not sure of the number but I distinctly recollect that it was the last sutra of a section or of the book  or the book itself is unknown to me ).

the sutra consists of just one word  ''Kramath" - but has very huge ramifications -

Kramam means "in order '' - as in the sentence with a meaning of like say Alphabets in order , or numbers in order

Kramam also means  : correctly in order - such as the usage or meaning in the sentences which connote ''to do things in a proper manner ie. in an orderly manner . First things first and next things next .

Kramam - also means in a succession that is logical - or a line of action that is logical - meaning purposive (with a firm end in mind ).

Kramam is also used as a reference to a pulsating (metronomic) and regular interval that is very small (in modern days it is explained by translators as a minute or some such small interval - use of words like minute or metronomic would actually vitiate the actual meaning and mislead a person not used to Sanskrit aphorisms spanda is a better term than both pulsating and metronomic to me ) ).

Kramam is also defined in an inverse manner in vedic cosmology (when discussing the Cosmic Purusha)  it is defined as x3 times of a Thrudi - where thrudi is 1/3 rd of the distance between the light a ray of sunbeam as we see or ''know'' it  (our sun - it is a particular rule applicable to only our sun and its rays ) in terms of time -ie . if we were to assume the light from our sun to be ''Travelling" it means the distance between one moment and the next moment (It stands to reason as perceptionally in two succeeding moments it will be at two points in space or it was considered that it used to travell physically and had weight - the single sun beam and they were not bothered with analogue or digital or even waviform or even straight line - perception by a conscious  observer  was the thing involved  ). ie Thrudi  (pronounced as thru'dee ) is 3 times the speed of light of our sun . There was another provisio to this meditation - were you believing in finitude or infinitude - in infinity the assumption was no movement is possible as infinity itself is all full and everywhere and thus cannot ''move'' technically . So in an infinite purusha meditation it is instantaneous (the light i mean ) it lights up at both ends simultaneously since the body is one . ie . before it is seen as light or perceived as light it is already there - ie you are at your destination before even thinking or willing it. . It is like saying '' you have a problem because the problem contains the solution ''. 

So what essentially it does (the sutra)  it is an ''enlivened word'' like a mantra - but which will yield the experience not by reptition as in a mantra - but by knowledge . When the meditation and recall on the sutra becomes perfect all the experiences of the original maker that is embodied in it is released with the concomittant flow of knowledge - as with one sutra so with all . It becomes intutive and automatic and knowledge becomes with ''the consistency of clay'' . There is nothing esoteric or hidden if the correct approach is there . It (the sutra) is like an index which contains all links and ideas and images without corruption across all vedas relating to the ''knowledge '' (not word idea or feeling etc as in words ) of that word and all written and unwritten cross references one - reads and takes what is necessary for the discourse .

Ending of time can be attained by understanding the above process and how knowledge and memory works to aid in meditation - 

Why was it x3 times the speed of light ? because of body which slows the perception , because of mind which slows up perception and the intellect which slows perception as they work in a line and succeedingly one after another in reverse (ie Body first , mind , next and intellect last when it should be the other way round - Intellect first , mind next and body (the individual ) last ).  So our ancients took everything with reference to infinity - which is why the theories still stand without being discredited by science or scientists and the took care to be very particular (as in the case of sun light - it is our sun not another sun) . Other suns would have different speeds for their rays but it was all wrapped up by infinite meditations as there is nothing faster or higher than that . This is the ego of the Veda.(knowledge) .

One can become undistanced by this knowledge - its practice is the meditation on OM - hiranyagarba or U and on Pragna (M) - as you think so you become - it is true there is no other .

May all be free from the pathos of distance and attain to undistanced happiness. Peace .

Views: 213


You need to be a member of Theosophy.Net to add comments!

Join Theosophy.Net

Comment by Capt. Anand Kumar on December 24, 2012 at 9:42pm

Thank You Hari. In case you have some Sanskrit dictionaries with you or Nirukta, would you please post how the word "Krama" is defined. I looked through "Shabdakalpadrumah" and could not find the word listed.

Comment by Hari Menon on December 11, 2012 at 5:15am

1. A body of knowledge on Time means nothing more than all your known Ideas of time as you have at present , and then you think on the same - without going out of its ambit (like other extraneous subjects not pertinent to the thought ). By thinking I mean you can do it with eyes open or you can sit as if for meditation and then instead of sinking into a meditative silence - you can examine your existing body of knowledge on Time and whatever you may wish  on time . You are free to think on whatever you may like to about time.You can feel time (i mean recall incidents when y became aware of time in various lengths) , You can look back on your life an see how long it seems in memory etc.You can think on the seasons and day and night or minutes or hour and years or millenium and how the word idea ''feels'' within you anything goes.How it is your children have grown and all like yesterday , the movies, college , childhood so you will get a ''feel'' of your time .And understand your perspective and how it has shrunk or expanded time inside of you . you have to do it with the wide eyed inquisitiveness and fascination of  a child and with wonder . Science is not required at this stage  or scientific theories of time - it is useless without the feel . If you do solely a heartless analysis , the soul of philosophy is such that somewhere along the line it will make you go back to doing meditation with feeling !! so better to do both together in a balanced manner.

2. You can with the new knowledge gained on the Sutra ponder on along with your already existing knowledge in short it is not anything ''new'' it is part of the same knowledge or perception of time you have .For the word Time must have infinite conception in you (which is not you as the body - but you as the ''I'' idea within you - never for a moment think it is a mental image ).The Sutra is a tool of knowledge where it is to be used in your feelings on time to cut into it and then analyze and test your memory of places and smells and other forgotten things , to expand the feeling into an image and fill in the blanks . Here the knowledge of moving faster than mind is useful .

3. Undistanced knowledge means Identification - it is a state where the  idea of ''me'' and ''mine'' is not there in your consciousness . It obviously makes sense , you do not have the ideas of me and mine in relation to all people seen or things seen , but you have it in respect and with reference to yourself and your possessions only -whereas we deal with others as if they  do not have the sense of me and mine !! Ask anyone and you can verify this fact , in fact they may even only come to know of this when you ask such a question - we know so little of us - it is the ''I'' (empirical one ) which can be removed by reasoning leading to experience  and you will identify with the world .

4. After above pt 3, meditation on infinite is possible not before as thoughts and consciousness of body will interfere.

5. Follows from  pt 4. since you are the beginning and end.

6.Restatement of pt 5.

7. The extent of the conception of the sutra will be gained at point 3, rendering this statement and doubt redundant.

8. Pt 7 becomes redundant when you are at point  4 above.(yes the infinite is infinite , but the finite appears as an idea within you in the knowledge of the world idea ).

9.I mean that small time when the knowledge flashes , you have to ''enter'' it by meditation to find out what its that flashed as knowledge - as an example let me try to put it this way :

When we read a book , or somebody says something we have a flash of understanding in our chest - you have to in meditation to isolate from memory a perfect such incident in your life which you did become aware and understanding it as knowledge - you have to enter that infinitsmal time or space and see for yourself what exactly was the process or knowledge involved at that time . I hope I have not become too obtuse !.

10. Reason is the cause we are not intuitive all the time - because reason goes by evidences and by cause and effect - and moreover we think we are the body so always a confirmation is required for us to acceot a thing as knowledge - it is because the consciousness which is inhering in the body predominates and as the body is not self intelligent unlike ourselves it needs validation through objects about itself before moving ahead - whereas actually we are all pervading and require no evidences.  It is here that one has to know that what is more subtler holds the inferior principle within it and can cognize it whereas the object cannot cognize in return. In brief we see objects because we are subtler than the object seen - eg, a tree, house, river, stone, mountain etc who am I ?

11. A little tricky here - You have to know that every thought and idea and feeling which we have stand in time and space just like ordinary objects , and the consciousness in which they stand is not the waking consciousness but the dream state . Dream State is a state like waking , and when we think we are in the dream consciousness , it is subtler than the waking state consciousness and so pervades the waking state and holds the waking consciousness within it . So a person who has attained to the Dream state can see both the states of waking and dream . In dream state we see dreams at times , but it is on waking that we say ''I say a dream'' now this is a perfect lie , because the person who says he saw the dream on waking is not the person who saw the dream actually - because he superimposes his body consciousness and pulls out from memory his dream experience and says so - whereas in actual dream he was only AWARE of a body but did not have a body - this is the ''I'' residue from his waking state that he carried to his dream state . (I know there are other types of dreams - one sees oneself, one sees another as ones elf, one sees dream without people, one sees dream in colour , and one controls activities of everyone in dream  - but these are another matter ) . 

Why I have taken pains to write all this is - beyond the body consciousness there is no human time or even universe so do not make any assumptions , just know for sure that time as you know does not exist and  keep a clear mind on this and if there is any further initiation into knowledge on time it will come on its own .

12 , Yes emphatically everything without an exception has to be considered as a teaching from within and remembered since doubts will be cleared through knowledge which may come later so the experience has to be correctly remembered  so as to connect it to the knowledge when it arises at some later date . In later periods once you have got the hang of it a doubt or question can be framed and the answer will pop up immediately . After some time you will lose fascination for this also as you will be doubtless in every aspect since you know yourself!!! This is the internal dialogue and this is the true Guru or master you will love it but it has to be transcended later by knowledge .

`13 .  Already explained above in some points.

14 . Sutra is not a Mantra . Sutra involves the expansion of its contained knowledge as in an amulet . Mantra involves a prayer and image. If at higher consciousness if we (think of a mantra ) it creates ripples in consciousness - and the mantra becomes a golden blob which then vanishes into higher consciousness . B This is because thoughts have colour , but the mantras are particularly more strong unlike our normal thoughts , holy thoughts are golden, air is green, water is white - there are different colours for chakras , pranas, and thoughts . Silver , dazzling white bordering as if a sliver of a mirror, black, brown, green, crimson and amny more Thoughts have colours, tastes have colours , breath has colours - it is all colour and light and movement with feeling in the astral or mental plane ..The colours of visions and back grounds during meditation indicate what is to come sometimes and sometimes what is passed . 

15. It is sometimes good meditate silently by fixing your cocentration on the Sahasrara , that point is to be seen as infinite - in fact one can safely even place ones concentration in the air outside ones body or anywhere in space - and consider it as infinite .

I really do not know whether I have satisfied your questions in full - I still prefer my previous post , it had an aphoristic flow to it , you have made me to expand on it . Since you have the knowledge to ask all these questions - I know you can make the connections from what I have written - they are all available in books .

Comment by Hari Menon on December 10, 2012 at 10:07pm

Dear Emmanuel,

             You have got the crux of the matter - yes meditating on the idea it conveys and aiming at the knowledge contained in it does confer the benefit, chanting however will not yield the necessary results and will be a waste of time . Pronunciation is not of importance in this mantra , the underlying idea is the  clinching factor - it is not sound based mantra - You can use it say if you are meditating on Time in general and have a body of knowledge (whatever it may be) pertaining to time - and this is an addition to that body of knowledge , its relationship to the already existing body of knowledge on Time that you have may be checked with the Idea of time contained in this Sutra - it ought to give some correctional insights on the subject . Yes un distanced knowledge is an outcome of the ''shrinking of time''. But to gain to this very effectively you have to conceive your self as infinite (which is true of you in essence , since space is integral to our existence ) - in which case you become faster than time or thought . The ideal to be attained here is at the point of a doubt is the solution itself and does not require any further thought . What I mean to say is that - a doubt contains the answer itself , since in Kramath it contains all the known knowledge of the topic in doubt with its ancillary links within the doubt itself - otherwise how could you have had such a doubt ?. It does take some effort to be able to discern this point in knowledge in infinity (which has been generated by yourself alone ).  Once the point or doubt or any other firm knowledge can be held and gone into without making connections or assumptions by our own volition , we start to expand the world of intuition and understand its intricacies . How intuition transcends reason but does not controvert it and , also how intuition has the capability to transform esoteric experiences into intelligence and knowledge . Consciousness has a way of understanding what a persons intent is , and the idea of the Sutra if used helps in the intellect to identify it with a particular thought structure which is acceptable and has stood the test of time within it and , the use of the word as known in the cosmic intellect is unambiguous and so known and recognized by it - so consciousness acts accordingly and raises a person accordingly . Once this main idea is grasped , sutras need not be a particular problem . It may be uttered within the mind to see and observe how the ''sound thought'' coalsceas  into your consciousness and what  images it may conjure or ideas that maybe thrown up , this method still requires the deciphering of the event in terms of its relevance to the idea of TIme and its meditation and results - it is not very easy , yet can be indulged in if and if you only consider EVERYTHING thus seen inside as a teaching . And yo must be able to relate the teaching to a particular doubt of yours , if you cannot remember the doubt or question the teaching fails , you must have remembrance of all the doubts that you have raised to the self within . Another way you can check is whether higher consciousness is being attained is - in the following manner , but this is not used for sutras (sutras are knowledge based mantras - thought and thinking on them will open it not otherwise). Any word that you may generate by a small vibration , if it turns into a golden colour and morphs into different images (like as in fire - I do not mean pictures, but a morphing of the sound into certain figures ). It shows a certain rising consciousness , this morphing moves up wards and vanishes , so it is good sometimes to meditate with your point at the top of the head also . 

Search Theosophy.Net!


What to do...

Join Theosophy.Net Blogs Forum Live Chat Invite Facebook Facebook Group

A New View of Theosophy


Theosophy References

Wiki Characteristics History Spirituality Esotericism Mysticism RotR ToS

Our Friends

© 2020   Created by Theosophy Network.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service