Is Krishnamurti Quoteable? (A book review)
Robert Epstein
The Quotable Krishnamurti
(Wheaton, IL : Quest Books, 2011, 176pp.)
There is the true story of the Westerner who goes to India and is asked to give a short talk at a conference. “How long?” he asks. “Not more than two hours” was the reply. Thus J. Krishnamurti’s short talks were nearly all two hours in length. I used to attend them at Saanen in the Swiss mountains. Usually one got the point that was to be made in the first 15 minutes, and then there was another hour and 45 minutes. However, there was a small stream near the large tent where the talks were given, and I would listen to the water running and every so often focus back to see that the talk was still going on.
What Krishnamurti did, but never said that that was what he was doing, was to lead a guided meditation to deeper levels of consciousness by highlighting all the obstacles on the different levels between day-to-day consciousness and whatever we want to call a deeper consciousness: freedom, reality, love, supreme energy, the Tao etc. If one was coming to listen to a structured lecture, one was disappointed for there was no structure as reading the unedited (or only slightly edited) talks which have been published by the Krishnamurti Foundation will show.
Robert Epstein has gone to the other extreme and has presented Krishnamurti “oneliners” in alphabetical order of key words. The result resembles the words of wisdom that one found in Chinese “Fortune cookies” usually attributed to Confucius but without footnotes to the Analects so one can never find the context for these words of wisdom. Unfortunately, Krishnamurti was not trained by New York Jewish stand-up comics who have perfected the “oneliners”, followed by silence and then a laugh. He was trained by Charles W. Leadbeater who never used one word when two or three would make things longer. Krishnamurti’s one “oneliner” used at the start of his career was “Truth is a pathless land”, and it was the only line quoted in nearly all the obituaries when he died. The line did sum up his conviction that you can depend only on yourself, not on masters, nor secret doctrines, nor hidden libraries in Tibetan monasteries, nor on him either.
The only thing that might be of value is at some deep level within the individual — a deeper consciousness— not a “higher consciousness” as this term might apply to something outside the individual. Krishnamurti’s talks were “guided meditations” toward this deeper consciousness. They were not practical guides on the steps to be taken nor did they do more than hint at what might be found at these deeper levels. Basically he would outline difficulties; some difficulties were obvious; others were more subtle. As in certain forms of psychoanalysis, if one becomes aware of a difficulty or a distortion, if one sees from where the distortion arose, the distortion is weakened and one can progress as an energy flow to a deeper level. L. Ron Hubbard took the idea and turned it into the Scientology industry.
As a guided meditation, Krishnamurti would start with what his listeners had in common, that is, a body with emotions, desires, needs. Some of the ways in which a body influences us are obvious; others are less so. In his personal life, Krishnamurti did yoga exercises as a way of being aware that one has a body and not just a wandering consciousness. Obviously, one could not explore all the ways in which the body works during the first 20 minutes of the talk. The guided meditation only gave you some steps that you could use elsewhere and at other times. Awareness of the impact of the body is an old issue, but as he says “No problem is ever old, but we approach it with the old formulation, which prevents our understanding it.”
After looking at the body as such, the next step was to look at the impact of the body on the emotions, on desires to be secure, safe, certain, undisturbed. There is the impact of the body on memory, on the sense of time, on habits, on acquisitiveness, on the desire for domination. There is a constant interplay between the body and desires. The body is an agent of conditioning which can breed deception, illusion, and contradictions. Our bodies are our links to the past and “the past is like a shadow, making things dull and weary; in that shadow, the present loses its clarity, its freedom.”
Once we have moved beyond the interaction of the body with emotions, drives and the formation of attitudes, we come to the most difficult of distortions: the working of the mind. As Krishnamurti is quoted saying, “Our only concern is with the question Can the mind free itself from its self-created bondage? ..An active mind is silent, aware, choiceless.” The bulk of Krishnamurti’s talks deal with reminding us that the mind is usually not silent, not aware, and not choiceless.
There are the interactions of the mind with the body creating a sense of time and thus memory — habits of the mind as well as habits of the body. There is the functioning of the mind to create belief, authority, to make comparisons, to measure, to get caught in a routine. Thus it is on the different levels of the working of the mind that one needs to focus. “If there is a radical transformation in the structure of an individual’s psyche, it will affect the whole consciousness of man. Can one be aware of the wholeness of life if the mind is fragmented and stressing separation? We all tend to find security in these fragments of humanity of which we are a part. The fragmented mind with training can give way to awareness. Out of awareness will come a realization of the wholeness of life.”
Yet we cannot overcome the fragmented mind by an act of will. “Can consciousness with its movement undergo a radical transformation, a transformation not brought about by will? Will is desire, desire for something and when there is desire there is a motive, which is again a distorting factor in observation.”
At each step toward deeper awareness, Krishnamurti highlights the difficulties, how we are unaware of distortions, how wanting to do good, we create new distortions. He does not give direct advice on how to go beyond the distortions. The hope is probably that by being more aware of the subtle types of distortions, we will not fall into the traps. Awareness may lead to a disintegration of the distortions. Beyond the distortions, there may be something we might call “reality” or “the way things are “, but even that is not sure because if anyone has reached that stage, he has not come back to describe it. Thus the one “oneliner” remains the key to the talks “Truth is a pathless land.”
Rene Wadlow
Comment
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Comment by Michael A. Williams on May 12, 2011 at 1:33pm
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Thanks, M K, for clarifying your comments. We are in agreement on everyone contributing to the betterment of the world and humankind, in their own way. It's most often in the day-to-day matters that we can help the most. I recall the saying "Wherever there is a human being, there is a chance for kindness." I think that says it well.
There is plenty to be learned from Geoffrey Hodson, for sure, and J. Krishnamurti as well. I was only pointing out what I see as some problems with J. K. teachings I, myself, draw on many people and areas for growth. I leave it up to others to decide what works best for them.
In this Blog post by Rene Wadlow, he refers to L. Ron Hubbard as having been influenced by J. Krishnamurti. In running across numerous references and articles on Mr. Hubbard over the years, I've never seen any mention of Jiddu Krishnamurti as an influence on him.
To be brief, L. Ron Hubbard took(some say stole) many things indirectly from Aleister Crowley and his O.T.O., gaining this through his acquantance with Jack Parsons in Pasadena in the 1940's. Parsons was Head of Crowley's O.T.O. there and in touch with Crowley. When hearing about Hubbard, via letters, Crowley warned Parsons to be wary of Hubbard.(this is a long, complex story)
L. Ron also took from Freud, Jung and other psychoanalysts of that era, plus the New Thought movement and certainly from much science fiction at that time.
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Moderator Comment by M K Ramadoss on May 12, 2011 at 12:45am -
I am so
rry if my comments was seen as if I am upset at anything. Not at all. I have been around theosophical and Krishnamurti groups too long...
I am aware of Hodson’s remarks on Krishnamurti. Also I do have the two volume collection of Hodson's collected works as well as his occult diary (which is very hard to find and goes for $600) and enjoy his writings. I have also personally attended a couple of lectures of Krishnamurti as well. And I have read some of his books. I am yet to have an opinion who is right or not or whose is a better approach.
While every one of us have our own ideas or opinions on all spiritual matters, my personal guiding light has always been that it is the duty of every man who is capable of an unselfish impulse to do something, however little, for the welfare of Humanity and our personal spiritual or occult progress will take care of itself.
The issues relating to theosophy and Krishnamurti have been frequently discussed in the theos-talk yahoo groups and the current messages and archives are open to public. I would recommend visiting it and some would find the msgs interesting.
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M K, I don't quite know what to make of your last comments. No one is discussing the "unseen" or various metaphysical theories or transcendent experiences here. Not that I think there is anything wrong with that, whatever the Buddha may have said. Nor has anyone said anything against "Brotherhood" and good fellowship between all people.
If you are disturbed about my criticisms of J. Krishnamurti's teachings and pointing out the contradictions of some of his statements, let me point out that the eminent Theosophist Geoffrey Hodson, among others, had a much more blistering critique of J. K. that I put forth.
And Krishnamurti himself continually lambasted various approaches and "methods." Sometimes quite rudely, as when he was in a Hindu temple in India speaking to a group of Chelas. He chastised them for performing their morning rituals of yoga and meditation(never revealing he himself did yoga every morning for most of his life), which I thought very inappropriate to do so while in the "house" and grounds of another. Personally, I wouldn't go to the Krishnamurti Foundation in Ojai and start in with some kind of anti-Krishnamurti rant.
It's perfectly legitimate to point out problematic areas in a teacher and/or philosophy and teachings. Others are free to agree, disagree, partially agree or whatever.
As for someone who has "tread the path" (which path?) and to share his or her experiences, seems to be more fitting for another forum. But, perhaps not.
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Moderator Comment by M K Ramadoss on May 11, 2011 at 7:23pm -
The famous quote from Lord Buddha that let us talk about what we can see because there is always controversy about the unseen. I think that was why in TS, "Brotherhood" was the first and foremost object and all others come later. I wish someone who has tread the path can come and tell us all about his/her experience.
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Friends,
There is a road...to Truth:
"There is a road, steep and thorny, beset with perils of every kind, but yet a road, and it leads to the very heart of the Universe: I can tell you how to find those who will show you the secret gateway that opens inward only, and closes fast behind the neophyte for evermore. There is no danger that dauntless courage cannot conquer; there is no trial that spotless purity cannot pass through; there is no difficulty that strong intellect cannot surmount. For those who win onwards there is reward past all telling—the power to bless and save humanity; for those who fail, there are other lives in which success may come."
Lucifer, Vol. IX, No. 49, September, 1891, p. 4
00000000000000000000000000000000000
“UTTISHµA!––Rise! Awake!
Seek the great Teachers, and attend!
The road Is narrow as a knife-edge! hard to tread!”
“But who once perceiveth HIM that IS;Without a name, Unseen, Impalpable,Bodiless, Undiminished, Unenlarged,To senses undeclared, without an end,
Without beginning, Timeless,
Higher than height,
Deeper than depth! Lo!
Such an one is saved!
Death hath not power upon him!”
THE SECRET OF DEATH.(From the Kath Upanishad,
Section I, Pt. iii, 14-15.)
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I must disagree with the statements made concerning the J. Krishnamurti famous quote "truth is a pathless land." I do agree with the statement by M K that critical thinking is a plus, and I would add keeping an open mind at the same time.
For years this "...pathless land" quote was a pivotal point in my life, along with J. K.'s "non-method" approach, until I did some real critical thinking about it and about J. K. himself. What does this really mean in practical terms? It usually turns out to justify, for many in "Krishnamurti's pathless land", a meandering life, avoiding any disciplined practice, shunning metaphysical literature for the most part, and justifying all of it with some reference to Krishnamurti quotes about "beliefs bog you down" and "throw out all authority, spiritual or otherwise.'
Well, the fact of the matter is, J. K. himself never reached his spiritual heights and understandings(in his better moments) from his "non-method" and meandering about in some "pathless land." It was first off, being born an advanced soul in embryonic form, the teachings and disciplines of Besant, Leadbeater and others(let's not get into the "ascended Masters" debate here), plus the seminal transformation point in 1923 and 24 in Ojai, California. It was here that "the ripened fruit fell from the tree" in the fom of what J. K. called "The Process," a profound kundalini rising experience, that would occur periodically throughout his life.
He hid "The Process' from the general public until the early 1960's, when he allowed Mary Lutyens, a lifelong friend and official biographer, to write briefly about. Since then, more has come out about it, but J. K. continued to his death never to discuss it in public, all the while telling his adherents and listeners to apply his public teachings and they would be transformed.
Certainly, many Gold nuggets can be gleamed form his many transcribed talks and books that are of use in one's life. But, J. K. himself admitted near his death that no one had understood him nor been enlightened because of his teachings. In fact, when Mary Lutyens asked him to put his "teachings" down in writing, he responded he coulded because he really didn't know what his teachings were, and would leave that for others to do.
Now, that's a puzzling situation. Here's a world famous spiritual teacher who toward the end of his life admits no one has been transformed and enlightened through his teachings and then goes on to admit he doesn't know what his own teachings are. And to add further to the absurdity, he beeches, right up to his death bed, to his adherents to continue to apply the "teachings" he himself can't explain.
Frankly, I'm left for the most part speechless, except to say that people are better off examining J. Krishnamurti's books and talks with a rigorous eye, intellectually and intuitively, before jumping off into his "pathless land."
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Moderator Comment by M K Ramadoss on May 11, 2011 at 9:40am -
Years ago, a kid about 8 yrs old watched with me a video talk of Krishnamurti. At the end, I asked the kid what he thinks Krishnamurti is saying. The reply was not surprising. The kid said Krishnamurti says don't listen to anyone. The kid is now a grown up young man and from time to time when we meet, we discuss how we need to be able to think critically and independently. Having been exposed to Krishnamurti at such a young age, he is not a candidate for proselytization by anyone. 'Truth is a pathless land' is truly a remarkable helpful statement.
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