Is the Hierarchy for real? I pretty much follow the line of theosopy->AY->my current spiritual state, accepting the main and mutual tenets of it. (Karma, Reincarnation), but I have certain reservation of the existence of the "invisible knights", the "puppet masters". For I have not felt their presence. 

My AY teacher explained the concept of Hierarchy  to me in a most simplistic terms. "There are of those who are higher than us", - makes sense, right? But does that mean that they are here among us and driving things invisibly. Things are quite fouled up all over the world.  

Do you believe in this Hierarchy? Have you ever felt their presence? In real or in dreams?

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Hi, Joe!

If you don't believe in the Hierarchy, what about the Mahatmas and all that?  I acknowledge that I'm no HPB scholar, but I kind of thought those were some of the same characters, no disrespect intended.  (To you or to the "characters"!)  :-)

I believe they are there.  I sure hope they are.    

Yes I believe in the Hierarch and have reason to to do so.we have freewill and as they say in the US are allowed to "mess up"

 Yes, the wise brothers are here. I know for sure, and the fact that I cannot prove it to anyone does not disturb me at all.  I do dislike the use of the word "hierarchy" and I don't use it. This word comes from ancient times and its use by modern mindsets is, at least, problematic...  

They are not at all "puppet masters". I do disagree with the word your AY teacher used. It is not about highness, but  -at human level-  about the broadness of mind needed to understand what life is about and the will to serve life's evolution.

 It's not that they are above watching but below, sustaining. There's a big difference between "taking care" and "controlling"...

 This world is undergoing a great acceleration and its side effect is nowadays turmoil . It's a healing crisis, a kind of fever that is burning the cloak of ignorance that covers the true nature of humanity. Soon it'll be over, and the wise brothers will work openly again in everyday's world.

 ... and of course I may be wrong, it's just that I felt like writing as I see it. Warm blessings, dear friends!!! 

...let me follow up a bit. The word "Hierarchy" is very 1920's-30's, perhaps this is because I have moved on spiritually speaking. There is a Pravda article on Shambala. While I am a skeptic of Hierarchy concept I am a believer of extraterrestrials and others (in spirit) from different worlds, have incarnated to Human forms. So maybe there are the same. I am a great fan of HPB and the Mahatma letters.....I guess perhaps since I do not "believe" in the Hierarchy - they are not for me to experience firsthand. 


Yes there is an Agni Yoga book called "Hierarchy" from 1931

Quote" Hierarchy is not coercion, it is the law of the Universe.It is not a threat, but the call of the heart and a fiery admonition directing toward the General Good"

Hi, Andrasnm ;-)

 Yes, the word "hierarchy" was used in the Agni Yoga books (and with very good reason), but it is of Greek origin, as many words are. It's composed by "hieros", holy and "arche", principle. Do people repeating the word usually know the very good reasons behind the word or use it to mean just "my own ideal of what's best and most"?

 Is anything still considered "holy" as it was, today? 

 "Hierarchy concepts" are usually a misunderstanding, to say it in gentle words, so skepticism is good. It's not about believing, it was when I became a disbeliever and started to think and act that I started to know. It's about living ethics. This means working on the brain until it is a useful expression tool for that which dwells within the Heart. I cannot find any better words to say it.      

the spiritual over-ruling of this planet is laissez-faire at best. Or, it is a tool as in many religions to form  a governing body within a sect to maintain a divinely-decreed control.

so. No. I do not see any well coordinated manifestations to help further the overall (living) race.

Hi Jon - trying hard to find disagreement here (sigh). However:

jon: "Think in terms of expansiveness of consciousness. Use the physical layout of planets, stars, galaxies, etc., as analogous, but replace the physical bodies with the idea of centers of consciousness - a collection of centers around a greater center, and that center along with others around an even greater center, etc.."

The question is - are they all aware of each other - ? my opinion is No. i.e. just independent people doing independent things. (Sometimes coordinated but more likely by happenstance). Higher Minds then implies higher focus on humanity along with action..  more a natural human phenomenon. I'll easily believe that. Those do exist.

If they are all supposedly acting in in a coordinated manner... I will stick to my laissez-faire opinion. <g> Wasn't it Will Rogers (?not sure?) that said he did not belong to an organized political party. He was a Democrat. (close I hope). (ok - a USA politics joke).


You'll not swim alone, Jon! ;-)

 Let's start stating that you and me seem to have quite different ideas on what an "human being" is, just to know where we are. ;-)

 But yes! it's this galaxy- star- planet... but the important idea as I understand it is that we don't need to "replace" because galaxy, star and planet are conscious beings, with their intelligence and will according to their size. And the will of the planet is to make an humanity evolve to play a part, an important role within the ecosystem.

 The interesting point is that an human being can reach a real understanding of what's life about in this planet and so become an intelligent co-worker of life force in this world. Those who understand something of the will of the planet can work accordingly. Those who understand so much that keeping their body alive for centuries or milennia is a good investment for the planet because they focus forces that help mental development in humanity are often called "Masters of Wisdom", "Senior members of the Hierarchy" etc... 

 In the planet evolution, humanity is both the problem and the solution, and this planet is not a perfect one, so the struggle has been, and is still, great. The wise people cannot and don't will to change the world or humanity, but it is humanity itself that is changing with inceasing speed since about 300 years ago, isn't it?

  I don't think that the wise people are beyond humanity but within humanity. Now they can act as teachers and not as religious leaders because humanity's mindset has changed.


Hierarchy not only seems essentially at every level I theosophy(S), I should think the same is true for all belief systems; they are built on hierchies - the "beings" simply fit in the mold already cast by their structures of existence.

Christian von Lahr
The opening post and Joe's reply would seem to be on some isolated examples, or subset of the concept of Hierachy in the Nature of existence in the cosmos - focused on some isolated few beings. Such elite must be an expected part and outcome of the Nature of existence in the Universe, including with our human race - or, presumably the survivability of the fittest, even spiritually, consciously and cosmically is a falsified base concept. To surrender, surrenders all, and we have an atheistic philosophy then - and so would be better off with " Science's" answers to creation and existence.

Christian von Lahr
I should also think [the Divine Plan], such that it is, would be anticipating the procreation of all exaulted leaders, teachers, prophets and [Lords], so as to help future humanity by imbuing in it a specific latent potential to evolve into, such potential being the "best", IT should have survivability.

Christian von Lahr


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