What did Blavatsky Miss? - Theosophy.Net2024-03-29T11:30:48Zhttps://theosophy.net/forum/topics/what-did-blavatsky-miss?commentId=3055387%3AComment%3A81611&feed=yes&xn_auth=noPaul, it did come to me. In t…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-09:3055387:Comment:819552011-10-09T00:49:57.001ZMichael A. Williamshttps://theosophy.net/profile/MichaelAWilliams
<p>Paul, it did come to me. In the wikipedia entry about you, it says you retired May, 1, 2008 as head Librarian at the Halifax County South-Boston library. Here's the page below.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._Paul_Johnson" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._Paul_Johnson</a></p>
<p>Joe, I do think this is relevant. It's a reply to the thread concerning Blavatsky quotes from rare Occult books she couldn't have had access to, introduced by June Vallyon. Paul replied…</p>
<p>Paul, it did come to me. In the wikipedia entry about you, it says you retired May, 1, 2008 as head Librarian at the Halifax County South-Boston library. Here's the page below.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._Paul_Johnson" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._Paul_Johnson</a></p>
<p>Joe, I do think this is relevant. It's a reply to the thread concerning Blavatsky quotes from rare Occult books she couldn't have had access to, introduced by June Vallyon. Paul replied that someone had theorized it could have been a result of "photographic memory." I'm just following that up.</p>
<p>Thanks, Paul, for clearing up the possibility of library records from the 19th century and indicating there would be none. It was a long shot, but thought I'd bring it up.</p>
<p> </p> Sorry, Paul, I could swear I'…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-09:3055387:Comment:822462011-10-09T00:23:11.994ZMichael A. Williamshttps://theosophy.net/profile/MichaelAWilliams
Sorry, Paul, I could swear I'd read that in as bio about you. Well, you should be recognized, if you aren't already! Can't recall where I read all that, maybe it will come to me.
Sorry, Paul, I could swear I'd read that in as bio about you. Well, you should be recognized, if you aren't already! Can't recall where I read all that, maybe it will come to me. I think Paul here could shed…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-08:3055387:Comment:822412011-10-08T20:18:14.255ZK. Paul Johnsonhttps://theosophy.net/profile/KPaulJohnson
<blockquote><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I think Paul here could shed some light on the operations of both the British Museum and the Vatican Library,</p>
<p><strong><em>Sorry, no. </em></strong></p>
<p><em>as he is not only a recognized scholar, but a former head Librarian in Boston.</em></p>
<p><strong><em>Sorry, no. Major case of mistaken identity here! Small town Virginian.</em></strong></p>
<p><em>Paul, would you know if these two institutions could be of any help in tracing…</em></p>
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<blockquote><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I think Paul here could shed some light on the operations of both the British Museum and the Vatican Library,</p>
<p><strong><em>Sorry, no. </em></strong></p>
<p><em>as he is not only a recognized scholar, but a former head Librarian in Boston.</em></p>
<p><strong><em>Sorry, no. Major case of mistaken identity here! Small town Virginian.</em></strong></p>
<p><em>Paul, would you know if these two institutions could be of any help in tracing now any details concerning personal HPB visits, if any?</em></p>
<p><strong><em>Sorry, no. I've never heard of any library keeping records of patron visits from the 19th century.</em></strong></p>
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</blockquote> Govert, you're right, the mai…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-08:3055387:Comment:820502011-10-08T18:27:05.371ZMichael A. Williamshttps://theosophy.net/profile/MichaelAWilliams
<p>Govert, you're right, the mainstream science paradigm of materialism is deeply entrenched and a naturalistic explanation is always assumed before hand by this approach.</p>
<p>Certainly, fraud and trickery must be carefully watched out for, which all good parapsychologists and paranormal investigators take into account. There are always clever pranksters out there.</p>
<p>Getting back to the "photographic memory" theory that was proposed concerning Blavatsky, June, you bring up the point I…</p>
<p>Govert, you're right, the mainstream science paradigm of materialism is deeply entrenched and a naturalistic explanation is always assumed before hand by this approach.</p>
<p>Certainly, fraud and trickery must be carefully watched out for, which all good parapsychologists and paranormal investigators take into account. There are always clever pranksters out there.</p>
<p>Getting back to the "photographic memory" theory that was proposed concerning Blavatsky, June, you bring up the point I was also getting at. Can it be shown that HPB had access to the rare occult material years earlier that she quoted from in her works. If not, that throws that theory out the window.</p>
<p>She obviously visited the British Museum, but are there any records still existing of her visits and what she looked at in their reading room?</p>
<p>As for the Vatican Library, I remember a documentary that said only a small selection of books and artifacts are allowed to be examined by qualified(in their eyes) researchers in a carefully guarded and watched reading room. The vast majority of material is completely off limits to outsiders. Was this the case in Blavatsky's time? Did she ever visit there? And, who now has had access to the material she is said to have quoted using clairvoyance and verified such?</p>
<p>I think Paul here could shed some light on the operations of both the British Museum and the Vatican Library, as he is not only a recognized scholar, but a former head Librarian in Boston. Paul, would you know if these two institutions could be of any help in tracing now any details concerning personal HPB visits, if any?</p> Photographic memory could onl…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-04:3055387:Comment:815772011-10-04T23:58:26.688ZJune Vallyonhttps://theosophy.net/profile/JuneVallyon
<p>Photographic memory could only apply to things that the authors in question have had physical access to. And how and when would Blavatsky been able to access the Vatican library?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>As for using computer analysis to detect plagarism, how accurate is it? One of my University lecturers claimed she could always tell, and used computer analysis to check - yet I know - or rather I found out afterwards - that one of my classmates never wrote anything orginal in his assignments. In…</p>
<p>Photographic memory could only apply to things that the authors in question have had physical access to. And how and when would Blavatsky been able to access the Vatican library?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>As for using computer analysis to detect plagarism, how accurate is it? One of my University lecturers claimed she could always tell, and used computer analysis to check - yet I know - or rather I found out afterwards - that one of my classmates never wrote anything orginal in his assignments. In the same year I had one of my final assignments rejected for plagarism when the whole class was adjudicated - until my lecturer said she'd watched me write the whole thing longhand and correct it in class, without reference even to the book that I was reviewing. They were not taking into account the fact that I was a mature student with a background in journalism and creative writing. </p> Dear Michael,
I think that th…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-04:3055387:Comment:818102011-10-04T18:50:03.867ZGovert Schullerhttps://theosophy.net/profile/GovertSchuller
<p><cite>Dear Michael,</cite></p>
<p>I think that the idea that photographic memory is somehow involved in the writings of Britten and HPB is a legitimate hypothesis. Present-day science is methodologically bound to find naturalistic causes for the phenomena it investigates. This would especially be the case where spiritualistic or psychic phenomena are concerned given the high incidence of fraud. We'll have to see how Marc Demarest develops and applies the hypothesis. We cannot judge him…</p>
<p><cite>Dear Michael,</cite></p>
<p>I think that the idea that photographic memory is somehow involved in the writings of Britten and HPB is a legitimate hypothesis. Present-day science is methodologically bound to find naturalistic causes for the phenomena it investigates. This would especially be the case where spiritualistic or psychic phenomena are concerned given the high incidence of fraud. We'll have to see how Marc Demarest develops and applies the hypothesis. We cannot judge him beforehand. I'd say, let the chips fall where they may. </p> Thanks, Paul, for the clarifi…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-03:3055387:Comment:816112011-10-03T21:37:36.326ZMichael A. Williamshttps://theosophy.net/profile/MichaelAWilliams
<p>Thanks, Paul, for the clarification and explanation. It would seem that Marc is checking for any kind of plagiarism on Emma's part. Unless there are long sections of exact similarities in wording, it may be difficult to prove. Many writers come up with similar phrasing when tapping into the same idea or subject matter. And with her not being around to defend herself, it may be giving a one sided view. Just my thoughts on the matter.</p>
<p>We're on the same page with Edgar Cayce. Certainly…</p>
<p>Thanks, Paul, for the clarification and explanation. It would seem that Marc is checking for any kind of plagiarism on Emma's part. Unless there are long sections of exact similarities in wording, it may be difficult to prove. Many writers come up with similar phrasing when tapping into the same idea or subject matter. And with her not being around to defend herself, it may be giving a one sided view. Just my thoughts on the matter.</p>
<p>We're on the same page with Edgar Cayce. Certainly the brain is involved and plays a role, but its not the whole picture. As regards to "photographic memory," as an explanation by this person in his Ph.D Dissertation, this sounds like a last grasp for an reductionist explanation by a desperate Materialist.</p> Hi Michael,
Neither of us is…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-03:3055387:Comment:815552011-10-03T17:28:55.984ZK. Paul Johnsonhttps://theosophy.net/profile/KPaulJohnson
<p>Hi Michael,</p>
<p>Neither of us is applying these computational bibliography tools to HPB, but rather to Emma. I was predicting that anyone who used them with the HPB/Mahatma body of literature is going to arouse protest that such worldly methods were applied to something so sacred.</p>
<p>I'm not yet an initiate into the processes whereby Marc has come up with his statistics reported in <a href="http://thetyphonpress.com/Catalog.html" target="_blank">Art Magic</a>. Fortunately, the intro…</p>
<p>Hi Michael,</p>
<p>Neither of us is applying these computational bibliography tools to HPB, but rather to Emma. I was predicting that anyone who used them with the HPB/Mahatma body of literature is going to arouse protest that such worldly methods were applied to something so sacred.</p>
<p>I'm not yet an initiate into the processes whereby Marc has come up with his statistics reported in <a target="_blank" href="http://thetyphonpress.com/Catalog.html">Art Magic</a>. Fortunately, the intro is freely available on Amazon.com, including pp. xxvii-xxvi, "The Sources of Art Magic." There is a link to the Amazon preview on the Typhon Press page linked above. I know from the intro that Marc accessed the Google Books database through "CTM Development's stellar FoxTrot full text retrieval system" and that he has searched for "statistically improbable phrases" as matches. But how this yields statistics like top ten sources in order, or relative use of others' words in different sections of the book, is something I look forward to learning about with Ghost Land.</p>
<p>Looking for natural explanations of Cayce's experience is not in any way dismissive, reductionist, or intended to promote the agenda of "materialist science" versus the claims of the paranormal. There are more than a hundred books interpreting Cayce from a paranormal, supernatural POV, and only one AFAIK devoted to the natural and normal kinds of explanation that historians favor. (The SCICOP crowd have written about him in parts of books from a debunking POV.) I'm not trying to oppose what the rest do or argue with them about paranormal claims, but just to write history that is nonpropagandistic in any direction. Saying that brain related factors must be considered is not saying they exclude or outweigh all others. But the disparity between his writing ability and the speech content was so great that brain injury might be a factor behind a lifelong pattern of trance clairvoyance. The photographic memory question was brought up in a Ph.D dissertation for CIIS, but I'm not sure about its availability. But a little searching led me to the same conclusion as you, that "photographic memory" is just as uncertain as ESP in terms of a scientific consensus.</p> I don't think "photographic m…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-03:3055387:Comment:815442011-10-03T03:25:48.340ZMichael A. Williamshttps://theosophy.net/profile/MichaelAWilliams
<p>I don't think "photographic memory" is fully explained by materialist science, though they would beg to differ. In and of itself, it may have "one leg" in the paranormal. Whatever the case, it is something that mainstream science admits exists, so it could be used as a possible explanation.</p>
<p>But, what I think is pertinent, my question of whether there is any mention of Blavatsky having a photographic memory, in her biographies or in her own writings, goes unanswered so far. Hopefully,…</p>
<p>I don't think "photographic memory" is fully explained by materialist science, though they would beg to differ. In and of itself, it may have "one leg" in the paranormal. Whatever the case, it is something that mainstream science admits exists, so it could be used as a possible explanation.</p>
<p>But, what I think is pertinent, my question of whether there is any mention of Blavatsky having a photographic memory, in her biographies or in her own writings, goes unanswered so far. Hopefully, someone with such knowledge will chime in here.</p>
<p>As for Edgar Cayce, Paul, you're quite knowledgeable in that area. But, I don't think we can so easily dismiss his clairvoyance being fully explained as "brain related." Many noted psychics had some kind of physical injury to the brain before their abilities awakened. Peter Hukos comes to immediately to mind. In my view and others, the brain plays a role as a "conduit" or "relay station" from the non-material world to the physical plane. Evidently, certain "channels" were opened up by the accidents.</p>
<p>I'm far from a "Blavatskyite," and don't think she was infallible, but let's keep an open mind in this area and let all the particulars come to light.</p>
<p>Paul, perhaps you could tutor us on what this "method" is that Marc Demarest is using to examine HPB's works that could lead to some "possible outrage."</p>
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<p> </p>
<p> </p> The best discussion of photog…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-02:3055387:Comment:814522011-10-02T20:46:39.032ZK. Paul Johnsonhttps://theosophy.net/profile/KPaulJohnson
The best discussion of photographic memory I've read was in an unpublished manuscript about Edgar Cayce, who had worked in a bookshop but whose writing ability was eighth grade level. Something about the "astral light seeing things upside down/backwards" rings a bell for me of photographic memory. If it's a paranormal kind of perception, I can't see why dyslexic inversion would occur. On the other hand, if it's a highly unusual but perhaps not paranormal level of photographic memory, makes…
The best discussion of photographic memory I've read was in an unpublished manuscript about Edgar Cayce, who had worked in a bookshop but whose writing ability was eighth grade level. Something about the "astral light seeing things upside down/backwards" rings a bell for me of photographic memory. If it's a paranormal kind of perception, I can't see why dyslexic inversion would occur. On the other hand, if it's a highly unusual but perhaps not paranormal level of photographic memory, makes more sense that it would be accessed pictorially rather than verbally. With Cayce one must especially look to brain-related explanations because the clairvoyance was allegedly unleashed by a spinal cord injury (baseball hitting the neck/back of his head at 13.)