The mosque in the Zero....(o la MOSCA islamica en la 'sopa' multicultural) you name it...

Let's be brave, and start a good discussion about the real meaning of tolerance - and I KNOW some people here in the site will have their skin shivered when I say this: WHAT ABOUT THE MOSQUE THEY WANT TO BUILD CLOSE TO THE 'ZERO ZONE' (or ground 'zero' for the US people)

It is still a touchy subject, some people you knewed and loved died there...but we cannot close eyes and ears, to years and years of killings in the name of 'liberty' that US has done in all over the world, I AM NOT JUSTIFYING THIS AT ANY EXTENT, any DEATH is a CRIME and as Theosophist you may know that.

But it is also TRUE that many people are not US citizens, and US has done - as a government not their people of course - a lot of problems in a lot of countries in around the globe. When is the Tolerance starts? as a very HEAVY KARMA - already been payed right now by US deaths in 9-11 and in this wars in Mideast, i would want the people here in the forum, as Theosophists, to face the touchy subject and tell me, the pro/cons of the decision Obama made, of starting the built of a Mosque there, close to where the extinct towers were.

I know that, as US citizens, will be more difficult to some of you to talk about this. Probably you lost some relative, some friend...but we cannot hide the fact, and remain discussions about lighter matters.

And in other parts of the world - like my Mexico - we have different points of view on the subject. WHEN the tolerance will start? Why? Do the younger people have 'more' tolerance' than the oldest? Do you live in a different "US" more tolerant, more narrow, what is happening??

I will attach this links to Mexican news from US that sometimes -as always - are blocked by main US media. probably you can find some good topic for discussion here....

You can translate it with Google translator.

Not my intention to offend anybody. I know how hard 'political correctness' can be.

Cheers and Peace. We ALL deserve Peace. ALL.


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I'm an American and I have no problem with the building of a mosque near ground zero. In fact, I think that allowing it would be a positive sign that our nation recognizes the difference between Islam as a world faith and the violent acts done in the name of Islam by a group of individuals with hardened, apocalyptic notions of the world.
Strictly speaking, the project is a communal centre, not a mosque.
Today is an anniversary of the 9/11 tragedy.. a tragedy I believe for America and for Muslims as well for at least two reasons:

(1) It was a "victory" for fanatic elements not only because they were able to pull it off in an organized fashion but also because it succeeded in misrepresenting millions of Muslims who have no animus and live peaceful responsible lives..

(2) A number of innocent Muslims also perished in the attacks that day..

It's also true that we have to consider how terrorist groups form and what is their motivation.. The roots may well go back to US involvement in supporting guerrillas fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan..

US support of Israel could be a factor for some of these groups.

Karma has a role.. Recall that Karma is defined

understood as that which causes the entire cycle of cause and effect (i.e., the cycle called saṃsāra) originating in ancient India and treated in Hindu, Jain, Sikh and ..

Samsara refers to suffering resulting from the cause and effects of Karma..

We are in a world of pain and sorrow caused by the effects of injuring others whether we are aware of it or not.. The only way to eventually reduce the suffering is to first acknowledge it and then begin to take charge of our lives to reduce our own acts that injure others. We can evoke peace in our immediate surroundings and practise nonviolence in thought, word and deed..
those were not guerrilas -as guerrillas are insurgency not counterinteligence pre-made groups by CIA agents.

just to remark the point.

Estrella definition includes words like: 'fair', and 'sympathy', and synonym words like: 'patience', and 'forbearance' etc...
I feel those words live in my life. Yet I also use discrimination of the mind to not tolerate the wrong thing, not be patient with the wrong thing. So it becomes then a question of what is right and wrong really-doesn't it? And yet is it as simple as what is wrong for one being may be perceived as right for another? Then we get into Ethnocentrics and diversity of cultural beliefs. Yet when you put all the beliefs into one pot-which ones bubble up as more full of 'lightness'-'rightness'? Yet then, must we put all the people of those beliefs in the one pot, and stir that, and see which beings rise up as true in Lightness and rightness...yet I am not their God, and so I am not their judge. And so it really doesn't matter does it...till it affects me...or you...or our families...or our countries...

Yet, what we choose to 'align' with is what we choose to stand with. If we tolerate that which goes against life then we take a stand against life.

If there is such a cry out to build monuments in the name of beliefs-to be fair toward all beliefs-then how many beliefs-of how many peoples -of how many monuments must they build on the site of an act of war-an act against life?

Does this not seem ludicrous to anyone?
Building a mosque at the location of ground zero is of course a harmonising idea, and what about making it a centre where all religions who wish so have their little spot of practice or worship? Why not make it a place of genuine interfaith dialogue?
Times have come for all kinds of interfaith initiatives.
This could be a good opportunity!
Yes! Build something that reflects all religions of the world and make it a harmonizing center.
Something refreshing, instead of all the bigotry and hysteria displayed in the media.
Why can't the religious leaders come up with such a simple and beautiful idea?
Joe:"I would like for someone to contact the Cordoba Initiative and get some comments from them for this site."

Can you define your goal in contacting the Cordoba Initiative? What do you have in mind?
"We, as a movement need to start interfacing with other groups and directly solicit their views".

Which other groups? Their views on what? On theosophy? On interfaith dialogue?
On spreading the message of tolerance and openness?
I'm just asking these questions to get some clarity as to what you have in mind.
BTW, it would be useful to know whether there are Sufi-muslims or those of a non-conservative denomination on this forum. They may feel strongly attracted to the Cordoba initiative.
Joe, I agree with that. The shift in mindset also includes changing mode from passive to active participation. I would love to see more initiative on this forum.
As to the Sufis, we could send a message to Sufi groups on the internet, inviting them to an interfaith dialogue of kinds. It is typical a thing that could grow organically, starting small, and expanding into something bigger. It is also about attracting knowledgeable people, in the field of Islam in this case. If one contemplates Muslim-Christian dialogue, it would be indispensible to have people from both "sides" participating. What I also would like to hear is the opinion of others on this matter. An active forum, willing to participate in this regard seems a precondition.
I used to read stories of the Mulah Nasrudin. a lot of wisdom insight on them.

Funny stories, BTW.

Borges was an example - the writer -of the HOW interpreting 'the other mind' and he wroted short stories about different types of men of other cultures. I recommend The Aleph. a short story of an arab wiseman on it, very well constructed -Borges was Argentinian of a very conservative -catholic- background - so it is very remarkable the effort.


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