The human effect - Theosophy.Net2024-03-28T19:54:43Zhttps://theosophy.net/forum/topics/the-human-effect?commentId=3055387%3AComment%3A129990&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHi William, okay fair enough.…tag:theosophy.net,2013-09-17:3055387:Comment:1301552013-09-17T23:37:46.468ZPaigehttps://theosophy.net/profile/AyoCarter
<p>Hi William, okay fair enough. Thank you for explaining what Orenda is a little bit more to my question. I am still very curious about the entire thing so I guess I can do some investigating in my own time through using Google. This subject just seem very interesting to me becuase it like almost turns everything I already know in my faith upside down, so now I am very consciouslly curious of this whole subject matter. And yet the best is yet to come! =) </p>
<p>Hi William, okay fair enough. Thank you for explaining what Orenda is a little bit more to my question. I am still very curious about the entire thing so I guess I can do some investigating in my own time through using Google. This subject just seem very interesting to me becuase it like almost turns everything I already know in my faith upside down, so now I am very consciouslly curious of this whole subject matter. And yet the best is yet to come! =) </p> I can tell you about the stat…tag:theosophy.net,2013-09-17:3055387:Comment:1301542013-09-17T23:14:15.267ZWilliam John Meeganhttps://theosophy.net/profile/WilliamJohnMeegan
<p>I can tell you about the state of Orenda (Christian call it the Holy Spirit) about it but I cannot explain it. It is something that you have to do on your own. What can be discerned from reason and logic is the end of human knowledge but it can only hypothesize what is beyond human knowledge. Orenda is living in FAITH. People say they have faith but they really don't. What they have is belief. If is a rare individual that can cross over. It is what the New Testament calls the…</p>
<p>I can tell you about the state of Orenda (Christian call it the Holy Spirit) about it but I cannot explain it. It is something that you have to do on your own. What can be discerned from reason and logic is the end of human knowledge but it can only hypothesize what is beyond human knowledge. Orenda is living in FAITH. People say they have faith but they really don't. What they have is belief. If is a rare individual that can cross over. It is what the New Testament calls the RAPTURE. Two people working side by side one is taken the other isn't. It is not that the physical human being is taken it is their psyche going into a state of being with the Holy Spirit (soul): a state of entering the Garden of Eden where the worries of the world no longer bother that individual.</p> Amen. =) tag:theosophy.net,2013-09-17:3055387:Comment:1299902013-09-17T23:09:18.677ZPaigehttps://theosophy.net/profile/AyoCarter
<p>Amen. =) </p>
<p>Amen. =) </p> Hi William, I never heard of…tag:theosophy.net,2013-09-17:3055387:Comment:1300742013-09-17T22:31:25.369ZPaigehttps://theosophy.net/profile/AyoCarter
<p>Hi William, I never heard of the state of "Orenda" so could you maybe elaborate on this some more because it seem like it is interesting? Also, because I am just curious to know about it since I have just now learned about it and stuff too. </p>
<p>Hi William, I never heard of the state of "Orenda" so could you maybe elaborate on this some more because it seem like it is interesting? Also, because I am just curious to know about it since I have just now learned about it and stuff too. </p> John Mead:
First of all I am…tag:theosophy.net,2013-09-17:3055387:Comment:1300722013-09-17T11:42:49.241ZWilliam John Meeganhttps://theosophy.net/profile/WilliamJohnMeegan
<p>John Mead:</p>
<p>First of all I am never quite up to the internet slang <strong>w.r.t</strong>. so writing it out is more appropriate for my understanding.</p>
<p>This problem you mentioned above is quite on par with what I am dealing with in my paper; however, I do not use the phrase 'born again'; though, maybe I should - at least in the footnotes.</p>
<p>The new born baby is diametrically opposite to the Born Again Christian (Orenda: Holy Spirit): spiritual state. That is a state you…</p>
<p>John Mead:</p>
<p>First of all I am never quite up to the internet slang <strong>w.r.t</strong>. so writing it out is more appropriate for my understanding.</p>
<p>This problem you mentioned above is quite on par with what I am dealing with in my paper; however, I do not use the phrase 'born again'; though, maybe I should - at least in the footnotes.</p>
<p>The new born baby is diametrically opposite to the Born Again Christian (Orenda: Holy Spirit): spiritual state. That is a state you would be without sin. I believe that Orenda is a state of spiritual purification: total acceptance of the divine. Up to and just before obtaining the gift of the Holy Spirit (Orenda) the human being uses reason and logic attempting to understand God. And that is a necessity or prerequisite staging process <em><strong>"suffer it to be so now"</strong></em> as John the Baptist learned from Jesus Christ. Notice how John had all of the knowledge that Christ was entering into: knowledge of the sacred scripture: Baptism. John's baptism was with water; whereas, Christ's baptism was with Fire and Water. For truly baptism is that necessary stage of understanding the tenants of one's religion. It is not a state of blind obedience to bible tenants nor what the elders of the Church tells us. That is not FAITH. FAITH is the things that reason and logic tells us must be (those things hoped for) and FAITH is that evidence of those things that reason and logic tells us is true. Reason and logic do not offer up absolute proof of those things it witnesses: their is eternal doubt and confusing. Human reason and logic can only go so far and anything beyond such as FAITH is a leap across a vast chasm. Hence forward when using reason and logic there is no longer the pangs of doubt and uncertainty reason and logic is coupled with FAITH: the evidence of the things not seen.</p>
<p>Early on in my researches I had cross over into FAITH (Orenda) and at the time I had no real understanding of Christianity. I had gone from a diehard atheist to an absolute certainty that there was a God in less than four years. From that point forward everything I seem to touch on a religious matter appear to be the evidence of the things not seen. I was very fortunate to have obtain pattern recognition at the time where I discerned the Universal Mathematical Matrix: the evidence of things unseen. Anybody else that sees that matrix or even the evidence it exudes that shows it is the origins of the sacred scriptures will not truly believe unless they are in a state of Orenda. It is a matter of which side of the divide you are on. </p> Paul --> I am also confuse…tag:theosophy.net,2013-09-17:3055387:Comment:1299822013-09-17T08:20:04.002ZJohnhttps://theosophy.net/profile/JohnEMead
<p>Paul --> I am also confused with the words perfect and divine concerning the human being. Am I looking at this point from the wrong perspective?</p>
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<p>I think it is rather keeping these terms in perspective with the newborn and God, Born Divine and Perfect with respect to God and God's Laws is probably the key. Perfect w.r.t. lack of sin, no flaws; Divine because they are at the point where Life is Divine in its first existence in its closeness to God yet with a spiritual body…</p>
<p>Paul --> I am also confused with the words perfect and divine concerning the human being. Am I looking at this point from the wrong perspective?</p>
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<p>I think it is rather keeping these terms in perspective with the newborn and God, Born Divine and Perfect with respect to God and God's Laws is probably the key. Perfect w.r.t. lack of sin, no flaws; Divine because they are at the point where Life is Divine in its first existence in its closeness to God yet with a spiritual body simultaneously and sinless as well.</p>
<p>I am trying to get this right. It may be quite different from my somewhat naïve viewpoint.</p>
<p> </p> Matthew 18:3
and said, “Truly…tag:theosophy.net,2013-09-17:3055387:Comment:1300712013-09-17T00:42:49.092ZJohnhttps://theosophy.net/profile/JohnEMead
<p>Matthew 18:3</p>
<p>and said, “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."</p>
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<p>so, the quote above rather makes sense in this light, if I understand correctly?</p>
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<p>Matthew 18:3</p>
<p>and said, “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."</p>
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<p>so, the quote above rather makes sense in this light, if I understand correctly?</p>
<p></p> Disobedience as Paul puts it…tag:theosophy.net,2013-09-16:3055387:Comment:1301492013-09-16T23:53:46.307ZWilliam John Meeganhttps://theosophy.net/profile/WilliamJohnMeegan
<p>Disobedience as Paul puts it would be in relationship to God's laws. As you pointed out the baby cannot possibly know that it is sinning. This is why original sin is said to come down from Adam and Eve. The child will have to grow up and literally go against all that his parents, society mores and religion has taught it in order for that adult to get back into a spiritual state of being. This is something that only God can teach you. It is not something that anybody in the material…</p>
<p>Disobedience as Paul puts it would be in relationship to God's laws. As you pointed out the baby cannot possibly know that it is sinning. This is why original sin is said to come down from Adam and Eve. The child will have to grow up and literally go against all that his parents, society mores and religion has taught it in order for that adult to get back into a spiritual state of being. This is something that only God can teach you. It is not something that anybody in the material would can teach you.</p>
<p>Yes, someone can tell you how they did it and you can read and study dozens of people that have accomplished it but unless the initiate does the work himself he will have absolutely no idea what these other mystics are talking about.</p> William, Excellent answer. Bu…tag:theosophy.net,2013-09-16:3055387:Comment:1301482013-09-16T23:22:56.226ZPaul lee Jameshttps://theosophy.net/profile/PaulleeJames
<p>William,<br/> Excellent answer. But if the baby is so called innocent, (because it does not know how to or believe in sin, then how come it sins)? (I will agree the world will educate the child but when the child understands sin he/she still has not sinned until he/sin chooses to)? I do believe a disobeyed action(free believed will) is by blind belief. Is the word sin associated to/or with disobedience? Paul</p>
<p>William,<br/> Excellent answer. But if the baby is so called innocent, (because it does not know how to or believe in sin, then how come it sins)? (I will agree the world will educate the child but when the child understands sin he/she still has not sinned until he/sin chooses to)? I do believe a disobeyed action(free believed will) is by blind belief. Is the word sin associated to/or with disobedience? Paul</p> tag:theosophy.net,2013-09-16:3055387:Comment:1302312013-09-16T23:13:52.409ZPaul lee Jameshttps://theosophy.net/profile/PaulleeJames
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