Is the Hierarchy for real? I pretty much follow the line of theosopy->AY->my current spiritual state, accepting the main and mutual tenets of it. (Karma, Reincarnation), but I have certain reservation of the existence of the "invisible knights", the "puppet masters". For I have not felt their presence. 

My AY teacher explained the concept of Hierarchy  to me in a most simplistic terms. "There are of those who are higher than us", - makes sense, right? But does that mean that they are here among us and driving things invisibly. Things are quite fouled up all over the world.  

Do you believe in this Hierarchy? Have you ever felt their presence? In real or in dreams?

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"Sometimes I still think that it would be good to offer some explanation of the terms used before starting discussions.."
I agree with you.
we usually have to assume people use some terms in common understanding. It seems to fail on this topic <g>

from personal experience:  In theosophy, people are talking about Religious Hierarchies. Hence in the strictest form you have Pope, Cardinals, Bidhops, Priests, Deacon etc...
In a less strict manner you may have a college of Bishops, Priests, deacons etc.
i.e. larger autonomous groups coalitioned together, but each section having a top-down religious order and relative superiority.

A group of people may just work together independently in a very flat role/structure. All equal, all do about anything as they see it and some people with expertise that is called upon if the service/expertise is needed.
BTW: This is how TN works (essentially). We actually are a very "flat" network of people on a (usually) mutually aligned path.  It is pretty much a flat democracy. If order "appears" it is a happy surprise. <g>    

Oxford online:
    a system in which members of an organization or society are ranked according to relative status or authority: the initiative was with those lower down in the hierarchy [mass noun]: the trend is to get away from hierarchy and control

    (the hierarchy) the clergy of the Catholic Church or of an episcopal Church: the Roman Catholic hierarchy in Romania

    (the hierarchy) the upper echelons of a hierarchical system: the magazine was read quite widely even by some of the hierarchy

    an arrangement or classification of things according to relative importance or inclusiveness: a taxonomic hierarchy of phyla, classes, orders, families, genera, and species

    Theology the traditional system of orders of angels and other heavenly beings: the heavenly hierarchy


 Hi, friends!!!

 Anand, they do exist and work, but NOT AS BELIEVED. I say that believing makes understanding impossible in this issue. Their work is an expression of natural law, of the natural way.

 This "Spiritual Hierarchy" you speak of is a misunderstanding. People seem fascinated by power, control and influence, their symbols and means. This kind of mental state also makes understanding impossible. Understanding is needed to become truly powerful, impossible to control from outside. :-P

 John, this that you see as a "flat democracy" I see as an example of true hierarchy, natural hierarchy. So order does not "appear" as a happy surprise to me but as something just natural, a matter of course.

 In the dictionary quote I find one fertile idea: inclusiveness. But I think that truly asking myself "what is holy to me?" helps me more to understand than going to the dictionary. The dictionary has not the same power.  

 May you all become more powerful today through understanding, dear friends!!!



hi Ferran -
The description you give doesn't fit with the Alice Bailey Myth, as in her treatise on Cosmic fire (search through it for hierarchy). Blavatsky has a similar Mythos.

It puts your Religious beliefs more into panentheism and pantheism. (a guess)

So, basically "No, I do not believe in a Hierarchy" as Andrasnm was asking in his question. I think you agreed with me if you use his definition (as I understand it).

The Alice Bailey Mythos contains a very well-defined Hierarchy (basically pyramidal).
The "Hierarchy" is just one Religious belief required in Baileyism and Blavatskyism. Unless you do not take their works literally, but as a mythological tool.

We actually should stay on Andrasdm's topic....  (I got the thread off track. Sorry)

Andrasnm may want to correct my interpretation of his question.  ??

 Hi, John!

 Of course it does not fit with any Myth!!!  I'm proud of it, thanks! :-)

 Well, my religion forbids any believing, it's about practice and more practice, not about believing, and of course rejects any classification... I am already Ferran, don't need any Ferranism hahahaha anyway, I focus on Andrasm's first question: is the Hierarchy for real?

 Sorry, John, but I have some religious prejudices against definitions, too... I thought you had already noticed.

 Of course you can interpret Bailey's books as a myth that contains a pyramidal hierarchy. Many of her followers do so. It can be seen as web-like, too, which I find more interesting.

 At least this hierarchy follows the rule "as above, so is below", for it is presented as the planetary expression of cosmic forces. I think I take HPB's and AAB's books quite literally, but I am aware of the limitations and relativities of language. These books are some of the best I have found in these questions, no more, no less.  It would be good to understand that anyone dealing with us is subject, just like us, to the limitations of our language.

 True hierarchy is not at all about being higher but about being prepared and willing to serve  common good, just like the administrators of this site do. If it's done here, it is also possible that it is being done in a wider scale.

 ...happy Easter, week-end or whatever, but happy!!! :-) 

"Hierarchy is not coercion it is the Law of the Universe.It is not threat, but the call of the heart and a fiery adomnition  directing towards the general good. Let us cognize the Hierarchy of Light" Hierarchy Agni Yoga Series


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