The Hierarchy - Theosophy.Net2024-03-29T14:44:14Zhttps://theosophy.net/forum/topics/the-hierarchy?feed=yes&xn_auth=no"Hierarchy is not coercion it…tag:theosophy.net,2012-04-07:3055387:Comment:1110152012-04-07T21:52:07.982Zbournemouthsochttps://theosophy.net/profile/bournemouthsoc
<p>"Hierarchy is not coercion it is the Law of the Universe.It is not threat, but the call of the heart and a fiery adomnition directing towards the general good. Let us cognize the Hierarchy of Light" Hierarchy Agni Yoga Series</p>
<p>"Hierarchy is not coercion it is the Law of the Universe.It is not threat, but the call of the heart and a fiery adomnition directing towards the general good. Let us cognize the Hierarchy of Light" Hierarchy Agni Yoga Series</p> Hi, John!
Of course it does…tag:theosophy.net,2012-04-05:3055387:Comment:1109142012-04-05T21:42:29.812ZFerran Sanz Orriolshttps://theosophy.net/profile/FerranSanzOrriols
<p> Hi, John!</p>
<p> Of course it does not fit with any Myth!!! I'm proud of it, thanks! :-)</p>
<p> Well, my religion forbids any believing, it's about practice and more practice, not about believing, and of course rejects any classification... I am already Ferran, don't need any Ferranism hahahaha anyway, I focus on Andrasm's first question: is the Hierarchy for real?</p>
<p> Sorry, John, but I have some religious prejudices against definitions, too... I thought you had…</p>
<p> Hi, John!</p>
<p> Of course it does not fit with any Myth!!! I'm proud of it, thanks! :-)</p>
<p> Well, my religion forbids any believing, it's about practice and more practice, not about believing, and of course rejects any classification... I am already Ferran, don't need any Ferranism hahahaha anyway, I focus on Andrasm's first question: is the Hierarchy for real?</p>
<p> Sorry, John, but I have some religious prejudices against definitions, too... I thought you had already noticed.</p>
<p> Of course you can interpret Bailey's books as a myth that contains a pyramidal hierarchy. Many of her followers do so. It can be seen as web-like, too, which I find more interesting.</p>
<p> At least this hierarchy follows the rule "as above, so is below", for it is presented as the planetary expression of cosmic forces. I think I take HPB's and AAB's books quite literally, but I am aware of the limitations and relativities of language. These books are some of the best I have found in these questions, no more, no less. It would be good to understand that anyone dealing with us is subject, just like us, to the limitations of our language.</p>
<p> True hierarchy is not at all about being higher but about being prepared and willing to serve common good, just like the administrators of this site do. If it's done here, it is also possible that it is being done in a wider scale.</p>
<p> ...happy Easter, week-end or whatever, but happy!!! :-) </p> hi Ferran -The description yo…tag:theosophy.net,2012-04-05:3055387:Comment:1105962012-04-05T15:37:31.632ZJohnhttps://theosophy.net/profile/JohnEMead
<p>hi Ferran -<br></br>The description you give doesn't fit with the Alice Bailey Myth, as in her treatise on Cosmic fire (search through it for hierarchy). Blavatsky has a similar Mythos.<br></br><br></br>It puts your Religious beliefs more into panentheism and pantheism. (a guess)<br></br><br></br>So, basically "No, I do not believe in a Hierarchy" as Andrasnm was asking in his question. I think you agreed with me if you use his definition (as I understand it).<br></br><br></br>The Alice Bailey Mythos contains a very…</p>
<p>hi Ferran -<br/>The description you give doesn't fit with the Alice Bailey Myth, as in her treatise on Cosmic fire (search through it for hierarchy). Blavatsky has a similar Mythos.<br/><br/>It puts your Religious beliefs more into panentheism and pantheism. (a guess)<br/><br/>So, basically "No, I do not believe in a Hierarchy" as Andrasnm was asking in his question. I think you agreed with me if you use his definition (as I understand it).<br/><br/>The Alice Bailey Mythos contains a very well-defined Hierarchy (basically pyramidal). <br/>The "Hierarchy" is just one Religious belief required in Baileyism and Blavatskyism. Unless you do not take their works literally, but as a mythological tool.<br/><br/>We actually should stay on Andrasdm's topic.... (I got the thread off track. Sorry)</p>
<p>Andrasnm may want to correct my interpretation of his question. ??</p> Hi, friends!!!
Anand, they…tag:theosophy.net,2012-04-05:3055387:Comment:1108152012-04-05T13:24:04.568ZFerran Sanz Orriolshttps://theosophy.net/profile/FerranSanzOrriols
<p> Hi, friends!!!</p>
<p> Anand, they do exist and work, but NOT AS BELIEVED. I say that believing makes understanding impossible in this issue. Their work is an expression of natural law, of the natural way.</p>
<p> This "Spiritual Hierarchy" you speak of is a misunderstanding. People seem fascinated by power, control and influence, their symbols and means. This kind of mental state also makes understanding impossible. Understanding is needed to become truly powerful, impossible to control…</p>
<p> Hi, friends!!!</p>
<p> Anand, they do exist and work, but NOT AS BELIEVED. I say that believing makes understanding impossible in this issue. Their work is an expression of natural law, of the natural way.</p>
<p> This "Spiritual Hierarchy" you speak of is a misunderstanding. People seem fascinated by power, control and influence, their symbols and means. This kind of mental state also makes understanding impossible. Understanding is needed to become truly powerful, impossible to control from outside. :-P</p>
<p> John, this that you see as a "flat democracy" I see as an example of true hierarchy, natural hierarchy. So order does not "appear" as a happy surprise to me but as something just natural, a matter of course.</p>
<p> In the dictionary quote I find one fertile idea: inclusiveness. But I think that truly asking myself "what is holy to me?" helps me more to understand than going to the dictionary. The dictionary has not the same power. </p>
<p> May you all become more powerful today through understanding, dear friends!!!</p>
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<p> </p> "Sometimes I still think that…tag:theosophy.net,2012-04-05:3055387:Comment:1108142012-04-05T04:07:35.205ZJohnhttps://theosophy.net/profile/JohnEMead
<p>"Sometimes I still think that it would be good to offer some explanation of the terms used before starting discussions.."<br></br>I agree with you.<br></br>we usually have to assume people use some terms in common understanding. It seems to fail on this topic <g><br></br><br></br>from personal experience: In theosophy, people are talking about Religious Hierarchies. Hence in the strictest form you have Pope, Cardinals, Bidhops, Priests, Deacon etc...<br></br>In a less strict manner you may have a college…</p>
<p>"Sometimes I still think that it would be good to offer some explanation of the terms used before starting discussions.."<br/>I agree with you.<br/>we usually have to assume people use some terms in common understanding. It seems to fail on this topic <g><br/><br/>from personal experience: In theosophy, people are talking about Religious Hierarchies. Hence in the strictest form you have Pope, Cardinals, Bidhops, Priests, Deacon etc...<br/>In a less strict manner you may have a college of Bishops, Priests, deacons etc.<br/>i.e. larger autonomous groups coalitioned together, but each section having a top-down religious order and relative superiority.<br/><br/>A group of people may just work together independently in a very flat role/structure. All equal, all do about anything as they see it and some people with expertise that is called upon if the service/expertise is needed. <br/>BTW: This is how TN works (essentially). We actually are a very "flat" network of people on a (usually) mutually aligned path. It is pretty much a flat democracy. If order "appears" it is a happy surprise. <g> <br/><br/><br/>-----------<br/>Oxford online:<br/>hierarchy<br/> a system in which members of an organization or society are ranked according to relative status or authority: the initiative was with those lower down in the hierarchy [mass noun]: the trend is to get away from hierarchy and control<br/><br/> (the hierarchy) the clergy of the Catholic Church or of an episcopal Church: the Roman Catholic hierarchy in Romania<br/><br/> (the hierarchy) the upper echelons of a hierarchical system: the magazine was read quite widely even by some of the hierarchy<br/><br/> an arrangement or classification of things according to relative importance or inclusiveness: a taxonomic hierarchy of phyla, classes, orders, families, genera, and species<br/><br/> Theology the traditional system of orders of angels and other heavenly beings: the heavenly hierarchy<br/><br/>----------</p> Thanks Ferran.
The example th…tag:theosophy.net,2012-04-04:3055387:Comment:1108102012-04-04T13:34:00.685ZCapt. Anand Kumarhttps://theosophy.net/profile/CaptAnandKumar
<p>Thanks Ferran.</p>
<p>The example that you provide deals with social hierarchy. When we write with capital H we usually indicate what could perhaps be described as the <em>Spiritual Hierarchy</em>, believed to be guiding the humanity and evolution. John's point is proved by the argument that if they do exist and work as believed, then they have failed in their task because they are working against the natural principles of organization as existing in nature like the cells of the human body…</p>
<p>Thanks Ferran.</p>
<p>The example that you provide deals with social hierarchy. When we write with capital H we usually indicate what could perhaps be described as the <em>Spiritual Hierarchy</em>, believed to be guiding the humanity and evolution. John's point is proved by the argument that if they do exist and work as believed, then they have failed in their task because they are working against the natural principles of organization as existing in nature like the cells of the human body or the organization of leaves, branches, trunk and the root of a tree. The natural principle requires each component of the system to work in harmony. The Spiritual Hierarchy, by assuming disproportionate influence (power) in comparison to their surroundings, violate the principle of harmony and therefore are unsuccessful.</p> Hi, friends!!!
Sometimes I…tag:theosophy.net,2012-04-04:3055387:Comment:1108092012-04-04T12:42:34.016ZFerran Sanz Orriolshttps://theosophy.net/profile/FerranSanzOrriols
<p> Hi, friends!!!</p>
<p> Sometimes I still think that it would be good to offer some explanation of the terms used before starting discussions... but then I think that if it were possible, discussions probably would not start... John says that nature does not like hierarchical groups and I say that nature works through hierarchical groups. The inference is clear: the words "hierarchy" and "nature" don't mean the same for both.</p>
<p> "Hierarchy" is a word that comes from the ancient Greek…</p>
<p> Hi, friends!!!</p>
<p> Sometimes I still think that it would be good to offer some explanation of the terms used before starting discussions... but then I think that if it were possible, discussions probably would not start... John says that nature does not like hierarchical groups and I say that nature works through hierarchical groups. The inference is clear: the words "hierarchy" and "nature" don't mean the same for both.</p>
<p> "Hierarchy" is a word that comes from the ancient Greek and is composed of "hieros", which means "holy, sacred" and "arche", that means "principle" meaning both "beginning" and "foundation". </p>
<p> So anyone who really wants to understand the idea of hierarchy can ask inwards "What is holy, sacred, to me?" and honestly follow this thread....</p>
<p> ... but this path lies next to the religious and it is so very subjective.... so I got another idea to show how hierarchy (and esoterical stuff by the way) just can't be helped, so we'll have to live with it...</p>
<p> The fact is that I'm writing here right now because of an existing, real, active, present, hierarchy.</p>
<p> No, I don't mean that Maitreya and the Masters of Wisdom are inspiring what I might write, not at all. :-P</p>
<p> This site did not begin out of nothing, but because someone began it and keeps taking care of it, our big boss or Hierarch, Joe. And he does not do this alone, he has formed a team of administrators in which Anand, our public relations or Hierophant, stands out.</p>
<p> The administrators or hierarchy of the site take care of many things inside that ordinary members don't know about (esoterical stuff) but which are needed to make it possible for anyone to be writing here. </p>
<p> Are the administrators of this site an antithesis of free will? Is their capacity to delete a writing a thread to my freedom? Do they deserve my respect for their work here?</p>
<p> I don't see any difference between the hierarchy running this site and what people usually call "Hierarchy" in big capital letters, except of size, and size is relative.</p>
<p> Have fun today, friends!!! </p>
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<p> </p> There are many explanations o…tag:theosophy.net,2012-04-02:3055387:Comment:1106882012-04-02T01:23:42.997ZJohnhttps://theosophy.net/profile/JohnEMead
<p>There are many explanations of this hierarchy. They do not all mesh. In fact - the release of their "presence" has been a major device fracturing the groups of people who might otherwise work together. I am not sure if knowledge of their "existence" is constructive or destructive. I believe the later.</p>
<p>Nature does not like hierarchical groups; but her real success is through entities deciding to do things individually - and it all comes together in a self-organizing fashion. (Wolfram…</p>
<p>There are many explanations of this hierarchy. They do not all mesh. In fact - the release of their "presence" has been a major device fracturing the groups of people who might otherwise work together. I am not sure if knowledge of their "existence" is constructive or destructive. I believe the later.</p>
<p>Nature does not like hierarchical groups; but her real success is through entities deciding to do things individually - and it all comes together in a self-organizing fashion. (Wolfram is a promoter of this idea). Hierarchies are highly inefficient and easy to disrupt forcing a total collapse of the entire workings.</p>
<p>The world is so messed up - I might begin to believe it has a hierarchy running it.</p>
<p>The flip side is that it is so messed up there is no way some organized structure is managing it...</p>
<p>Maybe the concept itself is an archetype of evil.... the archetype as another antithesis of free will. (I never saw the movie adjustment bureau)</p>
<p></p> Yes I saw this film recently…tag:theosophy.net,2011-12-12:3055387:Comment:1010142011-12-12T16:01:21.182Zbournemouthsochttps://theosophy.net/profile/bournemouthsoc
<p>Yes I saw this film recently another Phillip K Dick adaption of course.</p>
<p>I think the Hierarchy do not infringe our free will however.</p>
<p>Yes I saw this film recently another Phillip K Dick adaption of course.</p>
<p>I think the Hierarchy do not infringe our free will however.</p> So this "Hierarchy", is kinda…tag:theosophy.net,2011-12-11:3055387:Comment:1004982011-12-11T07:38:31.226Zandrasnmhttps://theosophy.net/profile/andrasnm
<p>So this "Hierarchy", is kinda like the Adjustment Bureau (film)???</p>
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<p>So this "Hierarchy", is kinda like the Adjustment Bureau (film)???</p>
<p><iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/R9HPdX0TZAg?wmode=opaque" frameborder="0"></iframe>
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