In my dalliance with Theosophy I have on occasions come across these karmic arbiters and have been confused.

While I am no expert in Theosophy, and the differing opinions expressed, I have never really been a God person, let alone a guru person. I have heard that these masters  advise souls relevant to their pressing needs, relevant to their next incarnation, and this all seems rather strange to me.

While I am not pushing Gnosis, could not our experiential journey, if their is one, relate to our over all learnings rather than the specific and arbitrary teachings of mystics and the like.

I might also suggest that our real spiritual growth might be more contingent upon our addressing secular moral issues then looking for esoteric short cuts.

I welcome criticisms and discourse.

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Hi Paul,

I have been a theosophist (Philippine Section) for 15 yewars now. The Theosophic teachings we study from MMe Helena Petrovna Blavatsky and her group take us to esoteric, occult, hidden, mysteries - which none of us has ever discerned, except in words. We are told that to have real knowedge of these "hidden" teachings, and hidden masters, we have to meditate hard and long and become a clairvoyant - just like the leaders.

 

I am with you in "applied theosophy" instead of these hidden theosophy. How does theosophy, the occult and esoteric teachings,impact on concrete earthlife and mold human behavior to achieve the object of Theosophy which is "universal brotherhood"? If one is to veer away from social divisions and approach unity, one must have the right morals and ethics here as one lives;not on the hidden, occult, and mysterious knowledge that cannot be checked.

 

Noel

Dear Paul,

        Very true , if one does not live ones present life properly it does not make sense - what is over and done with is over , the wherefore and whys do not matter . It is the eternal craving within human beings to search things based on Cause and Effect that is at the root of this problem . Admittedly cause and effect exists in a finite existence but it has to be applied judiciously. The need for liberation or knowledge depends on each individual and not on masters . I do not think a master who advises his disciple on the "need" or impresses upon him the urgency to "get out of the cycle of rebirths" is doing justice . Rather those who educate their disciples on the first principles of thought and its relation to actions being done would more qualify as a true master. There is nothing esoteric in the subtle science of the self - it is termed esoteric as 98 % of the ordinary people do not know how to properly ''Look inside '' and confront their own failings. The moment subtler thinking is required superstitions and imagery of our conditionings arise to mislead the seeker - one pointed and keen intellect is required to the ability to sift the chaff. 

The phenomenology of the mind is such that when experiencing it at higher consciousness we tend to apply our every day logic and wisdom gained in the waking state to interpret them and arrive at totally wrong or "mystic" conclusions. There is nothing mystic about either the mind or intellect or the empirical self - if one understands correctly the principles of thought and how they behave at various heightened levels of consciousness.

The senses are thought of to be as not all pervading due to their association with the body and localized existence corresponding to its owner . In the higher phenomenological experiences (which we call Psychic or esoteric ) - the ability to see , hear , smell and feel far off  things and people are very common - but unfortunately are toted as great attainments (it is not - they are available to each and every living person and can be attained with ease ). Similarly is the intellect - in ordinary life we are so self centric that we understand a word or Idea in the way that we have known it and not as another has known it - as an example - I understand the word house through experience and knowledge and learning - so when a person says "My house" or ''HIs house " etc in a conversation - what I understand is not  the speakers house - but my house of which I have intimate knowledge - over time we understand the word generally and never particularly . With proper training and understanding it is eminently attainable for a person to have right knowledge wherein when a person uses a word - we will be able to understand and know it EXACTLY the way he means without any deviation . Since all people understand  all words which are sounds in the general and never in the particular . In todays world I would understand particularly another mans house if I have visited it and physically  only unless I am aware that my knowledge is incomplete  and knowledge that is incomplete is no knowledge at all.  

As for Karma again everyone connects it to action - but Karma is more subtle and has more to do with thought (which is the action itself ) . As action is the root of a word - we hear a sound and then understand it - the understanding part of it arises due to an action whereby the intellect recognises the word and we respond or start to think etc. Thinking is an action . Bodily action comes last - you have to admit it that if a person acts without thinking he is no better than a beast !

Where does all this lead us to ? to living a life in Intuition .

 

Dear Paul,

        You are bang on target when you use the words blatant consumerism , It sickens you and you want to run away particularly when you come across it in the domain of spirituality - and after much wandering you find that you have only yourself to run to !. Self styled gurus who get embroiled in sex scandals and tax evasion cases and land scams and what more they have such thick skins that they still manage to pervert the intellects of their already weak disciples and followers . A man sees some lights in his head , or he falls asleep during meditation and believes he has undergone Samadhi and immediately goes and build a huge following with a new age Yoga and instant nirvana . A lot of people who otherwise could have lived usefully and contributed in their own small way to society and parents and family are turned into useless and avaricious vegetables feeding off the gullible and already mentally depressed who approach them for solace.And TV channels which have people of the order mouthing spirituality and a lot of other "thoughtless'' people lapping up every noise and rubbish that is thrown up , with an audience of millions fed on weak stories and approaching pensionable age sitting glued and lapping up every word uttered .  One has to be already ''illumined'' these days to get to a good ashram or meet a self effacing and worthy preceptor.Have money get Moksha - and another strange thing almost all the teachers claim to have soujourned in the ''Himalayas'' during their apprenticeship to some yogi who in turn has lived for 200 years or more - is still alive and as difficult to trace as the Yeti. I think metaphysical consolation is the term I was searching for.

My 15 years w/theos has me "floating" above the groud: theosophic teachings are "esoteric and occult" and do not translate into ground action. For instance, how do the the theos concepts of karma, reincarnatio, unity of life, hidden masters, etc. affect one's morals and ethics? Because it is one's rules of conduct in earth life that will have the greatest impact on human life. I think we should reverse the process: learn from human actions and gradually transmute these into spiritual lessons. The Buddha has the right procedure: there are the 4-fold paths, and 8 noble rules - and they all apply to earth life. The Buddha never mentioned a deioty, a divine, or a spiorit. Unlike theosophy, which tends towards the Hindu precept of submergence of the lower self and attain the higher, Buddhism is "ground level": you behave following the 8-fold path and the 4 right actions, and you will attain self-improvement. The samadhi attained during meditation (on the road to enlightenment) is a bonus. The goal is right thoughts, right action, right livelihood and right behavior - all earth-bound. No deity, no divine; it is  you.

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