Looking for Dugpas - Theosophy.Net2024-03-29T09:01:40Zhttps://theosophy.net/forum/topics/looking-for-dugpas?commentId=3055387%3AComment%3A13446&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIt is a losing concept. In a…tag:theosophy.net,2010-12-17:3055387:Comment:349752010-12-17T05:25:35.270ZPatrique Dordevichttps://theosophy.net/profile/mahatmawatcher
<p>It is a losing concept. In a few years it's a concept found in history books alone.</p>
<p>It is a losing concept. In a few years it's a concept found in history books alone.</p> I have not run into much deta…tag:theosophy.net,2010-07-30:3055387:Comment:285612010-07-30T19:41:24.204ZM K Ramadosshttps://theosophy.net/profile/MKR
<b>I have not run into much details about Shammars. The way Dugpas and Shammars are mentioned, it is the category of individuals whose job is to oppose and create trouble for any cause which helps the world.<br />
<br />
These individuals don’t show up and advertise they are Dugpas or Shammars. They always work through their unsuspecting victims. You may to see their hidden hand when you see disunity and trouble in any progressive movement working for the welfare of the people. Look at the results to see…</b>
<b>I have not run into much details about Shammars. The way Dugpas and Shammars are mentioned, it is the category of individuals whose job is to oppose and create trouble for any cause which helps the world.<br />
<br />
These individuals don’t show up and advertise they are Dugpas or Shammars. They always work through their unsuspecting victims. You may to see their hidden hand when you see disunity and trouble in any progressive movement working for the welfare of the people. Look at the results to see their hand. You will also see a clear demonstration of cunning, deception, and all tactics geared to the principle - end justifies the means.</b><br />
<br />
<b>We need to pity these unwitting individuals who fall prey to the Dugpas and do their dirty jobs under the delusion that they are doing good to the world. Usually the chink in their armor through which these good people are taken control of is their intense egoism and hankering for publicity.<br />
<br />
In the Internet world of today, much light shines on everyone. Also due to the International nature of Internet, good and bad happenings around the world gets broadcast. So we may run into agents of Dugpas and all we can do is to keep away from them once we suspect them to be Dugpa’s surrogates.<br />
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MKR</b> I know that this may be off s…tag:theosophy.net,2010-03-29:3055387:Comment:244972010-03-29T05:49:47.360ZJulie Rene( Rude)Mulzerhttps://theosophy.net/profile/julierenemulzer
I know that this may be off subject, but how does one protect one's self from those prana vampires besides surrounding one's self w/ love?<br />
Thank you kindly, Julie
I know that this may be off subject, but how does one protect one's self from those prana vampires besides surrounding one's self w/ love?<br />
Thank you kindly, Julie Ok, hoping that THIS INFO cou…tag:theosophy.net,2009-07-09:3055387:Comment:153142009-07-09T07:22:11.014ZEstrellaFugazhttps://theosophy.net/profile/EstrellaFugaz
Ok, hoping that THIS INFO could be very useful.<br />
(Pardon me but i'm sort of tired of reading all of THESE POSTS about creepy dugpas - puf puf puf...-i just read them ALL)<br />
<br />
Well as i write from Mexico i happen to read and find a very popular book in Mexico about spirituality. This book is written by a guy nicknamed "Ayocuan" and wrote a book very popular in Spanish New Age Culture called "the sleeping woman has to give birth" (La mujer dormida debe dar a luz) This book in resume, is a biography…
Ok, hoping that THIS INFO could be very useful.<br />
(Pardon me but i'm sort of tired of reading all of THESE POSTS about creepy dugpas - puf puf puf...-i just read them ALL)<br />
<br />
Well as i write from Mexico i happen to read and find a very popular book in Mexico about spirituality. This book is written by a guy nicknamed "Ayocuan" and wrote a book very popular in Spanish New Age Culture called "the sleeping woman has to give birth" (La mujer dormida debe dar a luz) This book in resume, is a biography of a guy who meet this nazi guy in the fifties in Mexico who knew a lot of spirituality and of Tibetan Buddhism, and becomes his spiritual teacher. As the caracter of "Seven years in Tibet" This Nazi told the main caracter of the book that he was sent by the Nazis to pursuit the development of spiritual-magic-psiquic powers with some lamas of Thibet. The MAIN POINT HERE IS that he is told to search for some 'bhon masters' by Hitler and some other high rank nazis so he can become some sort of superhuman. Luckily he finds some Yellow hat monks of very high ranks in Thibetan buddhism, and he is asked why he wants to find 'bhon magicians' If he is a good person, why he wants to be in deals with black magicians?" He is litteraly told.<br />
<br />
Also he was told that the nazis would loose power, he abandons nazi doctrines and becomes a powerful spiritual teacher under a very high-rank monks supervision, for what it is told in the book - the most juicy part of it - it must be Gelug-pa or Yellow caps monks for what i had read.<br />
<br />
It is a very caracteristic book of spanish language New-Age, for an author of the "Regina" type spirituality type of esotheric, ancient Mexican-like knowledge. Also describes the conversion of "Ayocuan" into a very powerful spiritual teacher, but this part in the book is the most important, IT IS NOT a THEOSOPHY LITERATURE BOOK, and that's the most delightful of all, it does coincide in all with blavatsky's teachings even though is not a Theosophical book.<br />
<br />
Of the latter exposed here, I just learned more and more thanks to you all, as always, and it makes me clear after this to me that:<br />
<br />
The Red caps or dugpas are a generic name for one of the branches of Tibetan buddhism, separated from the Yellow caps or Gelug-pas, more followers of Tsongs-kapa<br />
And that "Bhons" or "Bons" is the generic name for Shaman or animist old religion of early primitive Tibet. And as always, as for example you could confuse the horrid cult of "Santa Muerte" of Mexico - a "Bhon" cult" with the more traditional cult to virgin mary, San Judas -St Jude - Tadeo, (of traditional church likeness)<br />
<br />
And, as i learned, not that it is from Dalai Lama, or the Pope, means that they are infalible or do not make "cismas" (cisms), or collisions with other branches, in their respective churches and religions.<br />
<br />
Thank you for making me more cultivated in a very difficult to understand matter. You remind me to ol' Chuck th…tag:theosophy.net,2009-07-09:3055387:Comment:153132009-07-09T07:00:07.969ZEstrellaFugazhttps://theosophy.net/profile/EstrellaFugaz
You remind me to ol' Chuck the heretic. BTW, pardon my ignorance, what was of this guy? hahahahaa...
You remind me to ol' Chuck the heretic. BTW, pardon my ignorance, what was of this guy? hahahahaa... This is very useful to me. i…tag:theosophy.net,2009-07-09:3055387:Comment:153102009-07-09T05:21:10.480ZEstrellaFugazhttps://theosophy.net/profile/EstrellaFugaz
This is very useful to me. i will quote this for a friend who is from the Gnostics.<br />
<br />
It is one of the best explanations, though i've found also very useful information in the gramatical quotes and of course Daniel Caldwell citations...<br />
<br />
Also, all of you helped with your other quotes and comments. But i've founded this one in particular from the gnostics very explainful and brief at the same time.
This is very useful to me. i will quote this for a friend who is from the Gnostics.<br />
<br />
It is one of the best explanations, though i've found also very useful information in the gramatical quotes and of course Daniel Caldwell citations...<br />
<br />
Also, all of you helped with your other quotes and comments. But i've founded this one in particular from the gnostics very explainful and brief at the same time. All I know about this is that…tag:theosophy.net,2009-06-24:3055387:Comment:143842009-06-24T22:33:19.966ZCharles Cosimanohttps://theosophy.net/profile/CharlesCosimano
All I know about this is that when you join the Dugpas you get a cool, red hat and a secret decoder ring but all the Masters give you is a book of tofu recipes.
All I know about this is that when you join the Dugpas you get a cool, red hat and a secret decoder ring but all the Masters give you is a book of tofu recipes. Dear Joe
My views are:
Wher…tag:theosophy.net,2009-06-24:3055387:Comment:143692009-06-24T20:11:00.898ZM. Sufilighthttps://theosophy.net/profile/MSufilight
<b>Dear Joe</b><br />
<br />
<u>My views are</u>:<br />
<br />
Where did it say: "no internal references"???<br />
<br />
And there might also be another catch or two. Because, I was only stating my views, something which was clearly written at the beginning of the above post.<br />
To prove what I am saying each individual will have to dig out for themselves.<br />
And there is no talk about excommunicating anyone neither as ordinary members of this forum or as moderators? As far as I am concerned, we are just exchanging views here.<br />
<br />
But…
<b>Dear Joe</b><br />
<br />
<u>My views are</u>:<br />
<br />
Where did it say: "no internal references"???<br />
<br />
And there might also be another catch or two. Because, I was only stating my views, something which was clearly written at the beginning of the above post.<br />
To prove what I am saying each individual will have to dig out for themselves.<br />
And there is no talk about excommunicating anyone neither as ordinary members of this forum or as moderators? As far as I am concerned, we are just exchanging views here.<br />
<br />
But perhaps I have misunderstod, what altruism really is all about?<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
M. Sufilight Dear friend
My views are:
I…tag:theosophy.net,2009-06-24:3055387:Comment:143632009-06-24T17:32:24.083ZM. Sufilighthttps://theosophy.net/profile/MSufilight
<b>Dear friend</b><br />
<br />
<u>My views are</u>:<br />
<br />
I could suggest, that you read the whole of The Key to Theosophy.<br />
<br />
<b>H. P. Blavatsky wrote in The Key to Theosophy, 2nd ed., 1890:</b><br />
"ENQUIRER. You seem very bitter against Spirits. As you have given me your views and your reasons for disbelieving in the materialization of, and direct communication in seances, with the disembodied spirits — or the "spirits of the dead" — would you mind enlightening me as to one more fact? Why are some Theosophists…
<b>Dear friend</b><br />
<br />
<u>My views are</u>:<br />
<br />
I could suggest, that you read the whole of The Key to Theosophy.<br />
<br />
<b>H. P. Blavatsky wrote in The Key to Theosophy, 2nd ed., 1890:</b><br />
"ENQUIRER. You seem very bitter against Spirits. As you have given me your views and your reasons for disbelieving in the materialization of, and direct communication in seances, with the disembodied spirits — or the "spirits of the dead" — would you mind enlightening me as to one more fact? Why are some Theosophists never tired of saying how dangerous is intercourse with spirits, and mediumship? Have they any particular reason for this?<br />
<br />
THEOSOPHIST. We must suppose so. I know I have. Owing to my familiarity for over half a century with these invisible, yet but too tangible and undeniable "influences," from the conscious Elementals, semi-conscious shells, down to the utterly senseless and nondescript spooks of all kinds, I claim a certain right to my views.<br />
<br />
ENQUIRER. Can you give an instance or instances to show why these practices should be regarded as dangerous?<br />
<br />
THEOSOPHIST. This would require more time than I can give you. Every cause must be judged by the effects it produces. Go over the history of Spiritualism for the last fifty years, ever since its reappearance in this century in America — and judge for yourself whether it has done its votaries more good or harm. Pray understand me. I do not speak against real Spiritualism, but against the modern movement which goes under that name, and the so-called philosophy invented to explain its phenomena.<br />
<br />
ENQUIRER. Don't you believe in their phenomena at all?<br />
<br />
THEOSOPHIST. It is because I believe in them with too good reason, and (save some cases of deliberate fraud) know them to be as true as that you and I live, that all my being revolts against them. Once more I speak only of physical, not mental or even psychic phenomena. Like attracts like. There are several high-minded, pure, good men and women, known to me personally, who have passed years of their lives under the direct guidance and even protection of high "Spirits," whether disembodied or planetary. But these Intelligences are not of the type of the John Kings and the Ernests who figure in seance rooms. These Intelligences guide and control mortals only in rare and exceptional cases to which they are attracted and magnetically drawn by the Karmic past of the individual. It is not enough to sit "for development" in order to attract them. That only opens the door to a swarm of "spooks," good, bad and indifferent, to which the medium becomes a slave for life. It is against such promiscuous mediumship and intercourse with goblins that I raise my voice, not against spiritual mysticism. The latter is ennobling and holy; the former is of just the same nature as the phenomena of two centuries ago, for which so many witches and wizards have been made to suffer. Read Glanvil and other authors on the subject of witchcraft, and you will find recorded there the parallels of most, if not all, of the physical phenomena of nineteenth century "Spiritualism."<br />
<br />
ENQUIRER. Do you mean to suggest that it is all witchcraft and nothing more?<br />
<br />
THEOSOPHIST. What I mean is that, whether conscious or unconscious, all this dealing with the dead is necromancy, and a most dangerous practice. For ages before Moses such raising of the dead was regarded by all the intelligent nations as sinful and cruel, inasmuch as it disturbs the rest of the souls and interferes with their evolutionary development into higher states. The collective wisdom of all past centuries has ever been loud in denouncing such practices. Finally, I say, what I have never ceased repeating orally and in print for fifteen years: While some of the so-called "spirits" do not know what they are talking about, repeating merely — like poll-parrots — what they find in the mediums' and other people's brains, others are most dangerous, and can only lead one to evil. These are two self-evident facts. Go into spiritualistic circles of the Allan Kardec school, and you find "spirits" asserting re-incarnation and speaking like Roman Catholics born. Turn to the "dear departed ones" in England and America, and you will hear them denying re-incarnation through thick and thin, denouncing those who teach it, and holding to Protestant views. Your best, your most powerful mediums, have all suffered in health of body and mind. Think of the sad end of Charles Foster, who died in an asylum, a raving lunatic; of Slade, an epileptic; of Eglinton — the best medium now in England — subject to the same. Look back over the life of D. D. Home, a man whose mind was steeped in gall and bitterness, who never had a good word to say of anyone whom he suspected of possessing psychic powers, and who slandered every other medium to the bitter end. This Calvin of Spiritualism suffered for years from a terrible spinal disease, brought on by his intercourse with the "spirits," and died a perfect wreck. Think again of the sad fate of poor Washington Irving Bishop. 1 knew him in New York, when he was fourteen, and he was undeniably a medium. It is true that the poor man stole a march on his "spirits," and baptised them "unconscious muscular action," to the great gaudium of all the corporations of highly learned and scientific fools, and to the replenishment of his own pocket. But de mortuis nit nisi bonum; his end was a sad one. He had strenuously concealed his epileptic fits — the first and strongest symptom of genuine mediumship — and who knows whether he was dead or in a trance when the post-mortem examination was performed? His relatives insist that he was alive, if we are to believe Reuter's telegrams. Finally, behold the veteran mediums, the founders and prime movers of modern spiritualism — the Fox sisters. After more than forty years of intercourse with the "Angels," the latter have led them to become incurable sots, who are now denouncing, in public lectures, their own life-long work and philosophy as a fraud. What kind of spirits must they be who prompted them, I ask you? "<br />
<a href="http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm">http://www.phx-ult-lodge.org/aKEY.htm</a><br />
<br />
<br />
And H. P. Blavatsky wrote in "REINCARNATIONS IN TIBET", 1882:<br />
"The regular system of the Lamaïc incarnations of “Sanggyas” (or Buddha) began with Tsong-Kha-pa. This reformer is not the incarnation of one of the five celestial Dhyanis, or heavenly Buddhas, as is generally supposed, said to have been created by Sakya Muni after he had risen to Nirvana, but that of “Amita,” one of the Chinese names for Buddha. The records preserved in the Gompa (lamasery) of “Tashi-Lhünpo” (spelt by the English Teshu Lumbo) show that Sang-gyas incarnated himself in Tsong-Khapa in consequence of the great degradation his doctrines had fallen into. Until then, there had been no other incarnations than those of the five celestial Buddhas and of their Bodhisattvas, each of the former having created (read, overshadowed with his spiritual wisdom) five of the last-named—there were, and now are in all but thirty incarnations—five Dhyanis and twenty-five Bodhisattvas. It was because, among many other reforms, Tsong-Kha-pa forbade necromancy (which is practiced to this day with the most disgusting rites, by the Böns—the aborigines of Tibet—with whom the Red Caps, or Shammars, had always fraternized), that the latter resisted his authority. This act was followed by a split between the two sects. Separating entirely from the Gelukpas, the Dugpas (Red Caps) —from the first in a great minority—settled in various parts of Tibet, chiefly its borderlands, and principally in Nepal and Bhutan. But, while they retained a sort of independence at the monastery of Sâkya-Jong, the Tibetan residence of their spiritual (?) chief Gong-sso Rinpoche, the Bhutanese have been from their beginning the tributaries and vassals of the Taley-Lamas."<br />
<a href="http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v4/y1882_022.htm">http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v4/y1882_022.htm</a><br />
<br />
- - -<br />
<br />
So these Red-Cap and Spiritualist practises are very dangerous .<br />
Are you still considering the split only to be merely a difference between sects?<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
M. Sufilight New to this site and this dis…tag:theosophy.net,2009-06-24:3055387:Comment:143502009-06-24T06:00:02.455ZJohn J. Felczakhttps://theosophy.net/profile/JohnJFelczak
New to this site and this discussion, but curious about this myself for years, and wanted to share an answer given to me by a former meditation teacher of mine who spent a number of years as a Buddhist monastic before returning to the West (and who also had at least some familiarity with HPB's writings, especially "Isis Unveiled"). When I asked him about any insight he had to offer based on his experience as a Buddhist monk in India and Nepal, he replied that it was really more of an ordinary…
New to this site and this discussion, but curious about this myself for years, and wanted to share an answer given to me by a former meditation teacher of mine who spent a number of years as a Buddhist monastic before returning to the West (and who also had at least some familiarity with HPB's writings, especially "Isis Unveiled"). When I asked him about any insight he had to offer based on his experience as a Buddhist monk in India and Nepal, he replied that it was really more of an ordinary sectarian conflict within Buddhism in Tibet, with the Dugpas or red-caps as the traditionalist faction who sought to retain more of the indigenous Tibetan shamanic (i.e., Bhon) traditions and the Gelugpas or yellow-caps as reformers who wished to "purify" Tibetan Buddhism of its pre-Buddhist elements...a sectarian conflict in some ways analogous to the Catholic Church versus Puritanism and Protestantism generally within Western Christianity, albeit without the fanaticism and bloody religious wars so characteristic of the latter religion.