Kwan-Yin or Avalokiteshvara, a Mahayana View - Theosophy.Net2024-03-29T06:56:57Zhttps://theosophy.net/forum/topics/kwanyin-or-avalokiteshvara-a?commentId=3055387%3AComment%3A36818&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIn Buddhism Amitabha Buddha's…tag:theosophy.net,2011-01-16:3055387:Comment:368202011-01-16T02:44:29.133ZNicholas Weekshttps://theosophy.net/profile/NicholasWeeks
<p>In Buddhism Amitabha Buddha's realm is called the Blissful Realm or Devachan in Tibetan. But there are many other Pure Lands & Buddhas. So why did the Brothers pick devachan to put forth as a theosophical teaching? One possibility is suggested in HPB's letters to Sinnett book - page 243:</p>
4. Amitabha 4. Avalokitesvara 4. Gautama<br></br>
<p> </p>
<p>There she mentions that for this 4th Round Amitabha & Avalokiteshwara & Gautama have…</p>
<p>In Buddhism Amitabha Buddha's realm is called the Blissful Realm or Devachan in Tibetan. But there are many other Pure Lands & Buddhas. So why did the Brothers pick devachan to put forth as a theosophical teaching? One possibility is suggested in HPB's letters to Sinnett book - page 243:</p>
4. Amitabha 4. Avalokitesvara 4. Gautama<br/>
<p> </p>
<p>There she mentions that for this 4th Round Amitabha & Avalokiteshwara & Gautama have a primary function for humanity. Other cycles have differing bodhisattvas & buddhas overseeing.</p> Glad you like the selections,…tag:theosophy.net,2011-01-16:3055387:Comment:368192011-01-16T02:33:23.347ZNicholas Weekshttps://theosophy.net/profile/NicholasWeeks
<p>Glad you like the selections, there will be more.</p>
<p>While sutras can be matched to tantras etc, they need not be. The ordinary Mahayana or Sutrayana can take one to buddhahood - it just may take longer.</p>
<p>More from the sutra:</p>
<font face="Times New Roman"><br />
</font><p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman">Buddha said: 'Virtuous man, not only me in this realm, even if innumerable Tathagatas, Arhats, Samyak-sambuddhas of other directions all get together in one place, they also…</font></p>
<p>Glad you like the selections, there will be more.</p>
<p>While sutras can be matched to tantras etc, they need not be. The ordinary Mahayana or Sutrayana can take one to buddhahood - it just may take longer.</p>
<p>More from the sutra:</p>
<font face="Times New Roman"><br />
</font><p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman">Buddha said: 'Virtuous man, not only me in this realm, even if innumerable Tathagatas, Arhats, Samyak-sambuddhas of other directions all get together in one place, they also cannot finish speaking the blessings and virtues of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva.</font></p>
<p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman">Virtuous man, if anyone in this world can keep remembering the name of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva Mahasattva, this person will be far away from the sufferings of birth, aging, illness, death and transmigration. He will be reborn quickly in the Utmost Bliss world [devachan], just like a goose king flying with the wind, and then personally see the Infinite-Life (Amitayus) Tathagata and hear wonderful Dharmas. Then this person will never suffer from transmigration, greed, anger, ignorance, aging, illness, death, or hunger. By the majestic power of Dharma, he will be born miraculously from a lotus, instead of suffering from being born from a womb.'"</font></p>
<blockquote><div><p><font face="Times New Roman"><br/>This seems a challenge, it is good.</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman">I think that SD is esoteric enough, as esoteric as sutras are, for as you know sutras are matched with tantras and tantras with initiations in order to empower the disciple yogi to accomplish the sadhana. In this sutra the esotericism is how to use the navel, the eyes, etc. In the same manner as HPB tried to explain in her esoteric instructions and inner group teachings. She spoke about a similar story but remarking the importance of geometrical proportions, human orifices and centers of action, etc.</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman">So, you have made a good selection of texts, very interesting.</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman"><br/><cite>Nicholas Weeks said:</cite></font></p>
<blockquote><div><p><font face="Times New Roman"><font face="Times New Roman">When that 2nd paragraph reminds us of the <em>SD</em> saying Avalokiteshvara is the 7th universal principle and has mind-born sons, that suggests the <em>SD</em> is less esoteric than we might think or that exoteric sutras are more esoteric than we think.</font></font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></p>
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<br/><br/><cite>Leila Becquer said:</cite> This seems a challenge, it is…tag:theosophy.net,2011-01-16:3055387:Comment:368182011-01-16T02:21:37.634ZLeila Becquerhttps://theosophy.net/profile/LeilaBecquer
<p><br></br>This seems a challenge, it is good.</p>
<p>I think that SD is esoteric enough, as esoteric as sutras are, for as you know sutras are matched with tantras and tantras with initiations in order to empower the disciple yogi to accomplish the sadhana. In this sutra the esotericism is how to use the navel, the eyes, etc. In the same manner as HPB tried to explain in her esoteric instructions and inner group teachings. She spoke about a similar story but remarking the importance of…</p>
<p><br/>This seems a challenge, it is good.</p>
<p>I think that SD is esoteric enough, as esoteric as sutras are, for as you know sutras are matched with tantras and tantras with initiations in order to empower the disciple yogi to accomplish the sadhana. In this sutra the esotericism is how to use the navel, the eyes, etc. In the same manner as HPB tried to explain in her esoteric instructions and inner group teachings. She spoke about a similar story but remarking the importance of geometrical proportions, human orifices and centers of action, etc.</p>
<p>So, you have made a good selection of texts, very interesting.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><br/><cite>Nicholas Weeks said:</cite></p>
<blockquote><div><p><font face="Times New Roman">When that 2nd paragraph reminds us of the <em>SD</em> saying Avalokiteshvara is the 7th universal principle and has mind-born sons, that suggests the <em>SD</em> is less esoteric than we might think or that exoteric sutras are more esoteric than we think.</font></p>
<p> </p>
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</blockquote> More from the Karandavyuha Su…tag:theosophy.net,2011-01-15:3055387:Comment:368092011-01-15T17:43:48.660ZNicholas Weekshttps://theosophy.net/profile/NicholasWeeks
<p>More from the <em>Karandavyuha Sutra</em>:</p>
<font face="Times New Roman"><br></br></font>
<p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman">Eliminate-Obstructions Bodhisattva then said: "Bhagavan, what were the mighty</font> <font face="Times New Roman">sacrosanct power, merits, and virtues of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva Mahasattva that you had heard about?"</font></p>
<p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman">The Bhagavan said: "Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva gave birth to the sun and the moon from…</font></p>
<p>More from the <em>Karandavyuha Sutra</em>:</p>
<font face="Times New Roman"><br/></font>
<p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman">Eliminate-Obstructions Bodhisattva then said: "Bhagavan, what were the mighty</font> <font face="Times New Roman">sacrosanct power, merits, and virtues of Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva Mahasattva that you had heard about?"</font></p>
<p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman">The Bhagavan said: "Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva gave birth to the sun and the moon from his eyes, gave birth to the Great unrestricted God (Mahesvara) from his forehead, gave birth to the Brahma heaven God from his shoulder, gave birth to Narayana from his heart, <font face="Times New Roman">gave birth to the Great eloquence God (Sarasvati) from his teeth,</font></font> <font face="Times New Roman">gave birth to the god of wind from his mouth, gave birth to the god of earth from his navel, and gave birth to the god of water from his stomach.</font></p>
<p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman"><font face="Times New Roman">Having given birth to those gods from his body, Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva said to the Great unrestricted God: 'At the Dharma ending age in the future, in the realms of sentient beings, there will be some living beings attaching to the erroneous views, saying that you are the great dominator from the beginningless of time and can create all sentient beings. At that time, those living beings, who have lost the Way of Bodhi, are ignorant and perplexed, they will say that:</font></font></p>
<p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman">The universe is a vast body,</font></p>
<p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman">and the earth is his throne.</font></p>
<p align="left"><font face="Times New Roman">All realms and sentient beings,</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman">were born from this body.'"</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman">When that 2nd paragraph reminds us of the <em>SD</em> saying Avalokiteshvara is the 7th universal principle and has mind-born sons, that suggests the <em>SD</em> is less esoteric than we might think or that exoteric sutras are more esoteric than we think.</font></p>
<p> </p> An excerpt from this sutra:
"…tag:theosophy.net,2011-01-14:3055387:Comment:367922011-01-14T23:39:42.305ZNicholas Weekshttps://theosophy.net/profile/NicholasWeeks
<p>An excerpt from this sutra:</p>
<p>"<font face="Times New Roman">At that time, a great brilliant light was emitted from the Great Avichi hell, the light fully</font> <font face="Times New Roman">illuminated the Jeta grove garden and made the garden become completely pure.</font><font face="Times New Roman">...</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman">When such a rare, pure, wonderful and sublime scene was manifesting in Jeta grove garden, in the midst of the congregation,…</font></p>
<p>An excerpt from this sutra:</p>
<p>"<font face="Times New Roman">At that time, a great brilliant light was emitted from the Great Avichi hell, the light fully</font> <font face="Times New Roman">illuminated the Jeta grove garden and made the garden become completely pure.</font><font face="Times New Roman">...</font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman">When such a rare, pure, wonderful and sublime scene was manifesting in Jeta grove garden, in the midst of the congregation, Eliminate-Obstructions Bodhisattva-Mahasattva arose from his seat, uncovered his right shoulder, placed his right knee on the ground, joined his palms respectfully, looked at the face of the Bhagavan with reverence and said to the Buddha: 'Rare Bhagavan, now I have a question in my mind, and wish that the Bhagavan can allow me to ask. Bhagavan, now there is a great brilliant light in this place, where did it come from? For what cause and relationship did this rare scene appear?'</font></p>
<p align="left">The Bhagavan then told Eliminate-Obstructions Bodhisattva: 'Virtuous man, all of you should listen attentively, and I am going to analyze and expound for you. This great brilliant light is caused by Arya Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva-Mahasattva, because he had just entered into Great Avichi hell to rescue all the sentient beings who were suffering from extreme afflictions and ferry them to the shore of liberation.'</p>
<p><br/><br/><cite>Nicholas Weeks said:</cite></p>
<blockquote><div><p>Here is a PDF of this <em>Karandavyuha Sutra</em> translation:</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/resources/downloads/sutras/05bodhisattvaYana/Gunakarandavyuha.doc.pdf">http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/resources/downloads/sutras/0...</a><br/><br/><cite>Nicholas Weeks said:</cite></p>
<blockquote><div><p>An old Mahayana sutra on Avalokiteshvara:</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.fodian.net/world/1050.html">http://www.fodian.net/world/1050.html</a></p>
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<p> </p> Here is a PDF of this Karanda…tag:theosophy.net,2011-01-14:3055387:Comment:367912011-01-14T23:29:56.068ZNicholas Weekshttps://theosophy.net/profile/NicholasWeeks
<p>Here is a PDF of this <em>Karandavyuha Sutra</em> translation:</p>
<p><a href="http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/resources/downloads/sutras/05bodhisattvaYana/Gunakarandavyuha.doc.pdf">http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/resources/downloads/sutras/05bodhisattvaYana/Gunakarandavyuha.doc.pdf</a><br></br><br></br><cite>Nicholas Weeks said:</cite></p>
<blockquote><div><p>An old Mahayana sutra on Avalokiteshvara:…</p>
<p></p>
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<p>Here is a PDF of this <em>Karandavyuha Sutra</em> translation:</p>
<p><a href="http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/resources/downloads/sutras/05bodhisattvaYana/Gunakarandavyuha.doc.pdf">http://kaladarshan.arts.ohio-state.edu/resources/downloads/sutras/05bodhisattvaYana/Gunakarandavyuha.doc.pdf</a><br/><br/><cite>Nicholas Weeks said:</cite></p>
<blockquote><div><p>An old Mahayana sutra on Avalokiteshvara:</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.fodian.net/world/1050.html">http://www.fodian.net/world/1050.html</a></p>
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</blockquote> This same author, in an earli…tag:theosophy.net,2011-01-12:3055387:Comment:366642011-01-12T23:08:25.668ZNicholas Weekshttps://theosophy.net/profile/NicholasWeeks
<div class="description" id="desc_3055387Comment36663"><p>This same author, in an earlier article, gives the minority view of Hsuan Tsang (famous pilgrim and translator) that neither Kuan Yin nor Kuan Shih Yin was the correct translation. He preferred Kuan Tzu Tsai (Perceiving Master).</p>
<p>"Neither Kuan-yin nor Kuan-shih-yin, however,<br></br> corresponds to Avalokites'vara, but rather to<br></br> Avalokitas'vara, a name not used in the Buddhist<br></br> …</p>
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<div class="description" id="desc_3055387Comment36663"><p>This same author, in an earlier article, gives the minority view of Hsuan Tsang (famous pilgrim and translator) that neither Kuan Yin nor Kuan Shih Yin was the correct translation. He preferred Kuan Tzu Tsai (Perceiving Master).</p>
<p>"Neither Kuan-yin nor Kuan-shih-yin, however,<br/> corresponds to Avalokites'vara, but rather to<br/> Avalokitas'vara, a name not used in the Buddhist<br/> world.That was why Hsuan-tsang (602-64) considered<br/> them as mistakes and suggested the right translation<br/> as Kuan-tzu-tsai (the Perceiving Lord).In a note<br/> explaining the name of the bodhisattva which he<br/> transliterated as "A-fu-lu-che-t'o-i-shih-fan-lo" in<br/> his Records of the Western Regions (Ta T'ang hsi-yu<br/> chi, T. no. 2087), Hsuan-tsang said, "This means in<br/> Chinese 'Kuan-tzu-tsai '. While 'a-fu-lu<br/> che-t'o' [Avalokita] means 'Kuan' (perceiving),<br/> 'i-shih-fan-lo' [isvara] means 'tzu-tsai'(lord). The old<br/> translations of 'Kuang-shih-yin (Illuminator of the<br/> World's sounds), ' Kuan-shih-yin' or 'Kuan-shih<br/> Tzu-tsai' are all wrong."(T. 51: 883b). Hsuan-tsang<br/> therefore used kuan-tzu-tsai in all the sutras he<br/> translated, including the Heart Suutra, a<br/> scripture as important to Chinese Buddhists as the<br/> Lotus Sutra, in which the bodhisattva is called<br/> Kuan-shih-yin. Because of the great authority and<br/> prestige of these two scriptures, both names have<br/> become familiar to Buddhists in China, although they<br/> have consistently preferred Kuan-shih-yin or<br/> Kuan-yin."</p>
<p>Shiksananda's translation of the <em>Avatamsaka Sutra</em> also used Kuan-tzu-tsai. The Brothers of Blavatsky may have been able to live with "Perceiving Lordliness", which is close to what they gave as the esoteric meaning of Avalokiteshvara.</p>
<p><br/><cite>Nicholas Weeks said:</cite></p>
<blockquote><div><p>This book, which I have just started reading, may be the best overall on Kuan-Yin - Kuan-Yin by Chun-fang Yu.</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-12029-6/kuanyin"><font color="#660000">http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-12029-6/kuanyin</font></a></p>
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</div> This book, which I have just…tag:theosophy.net,2011-01-12:3055387:Comment:366622011-01-12T19:32:16.940ZNicholas Weekshttps://theosophy.net/profile/NicholasWeeks
<p>This book, which I have just started reading, may be the best overall on Kuan-Yin - <em>Kuan-Yin</em> by Chun-fang Yu.</p>
<p><a href="http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-12029-6/kuanyin" rel="nofollow">http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-12029-6/kuanyin</a></p>
<p>This book, which I have just started reading, may be the best overall on Kuan-Yin - <em>Kuan-Yin</em> by Chun-fang Yu.</p>
<p><a href="http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-12029-6/kuanyin" rel="nofollow">http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-231-12029-6/kuanyin</a></p> Another connection between HP…tag:theosophy.net,2010-12-31:3055387:Comment:358762010-12-31T04:26:42.674ZNicholas Weekshttps://theosophy.net/profile/NicholasWeeks
Another connection between HPB & her gurus' theosophy and Lokeswara is the Tibetan word "devachan". This word is only used for the Buddha Realm of Amitabha Buddha, sukhavati (happy land) in Sanskrit. There are two main assistant bodhisattvas helping Amitabha in this pure land - Avalokitesvara & Vajrapani.
Another connection between HPB & her gurus' theosophy and Lokeswara is the Tibetan word "devachan". This word is only used for the Buddha Realm of Amitabha Buddha, sukhavati (happy land) in Sanskrit. There are two main assistant bodhisattvas helping Amitabha in this pure land - Avalokitesvara & Vajrapani. There seems to be some specia…tag:theosophy.net,2010-12-29:3055387:Comment:357512010-12-29T02:23:22.776ZLeila Becquerhttps://theosophy.net/profile/LeilaBecquer
<p>There seems to be some special connection between Kwan Yin and the work of HPB.</p>
<p>As we have seen before, the mantra of Avalokiteshvara is the one taken as example for HPB speaking about the correlation and coordination between thinking, imagination, sound, principles, tattvas, etc.</p>
<p>There is more, in The Theosophist (to which we have an easy acces now thanks to devoted workers), v5, n2, november 1883, p. 39 & 40 footnote (in Five Years of Theosophy, p. 371, too), in speaking…</p>
<p>There seems to be some special connection between Kwan Yin and the work of HPB.</p>
<p>As we have seen before, the mantra of Avalokiteshvara is the one taken as example for HPB speaking about the correlation and coordination between thinking, imagination, sound, principles, tattvas, etc.</p>
<p>There is more, in The Theosophist (to which we have an easy acces now thanks to devoted workers), v5, n2, november 1883, p. 39 & 40 footnote (in Five Years of Theosophy, p. 371, too), in speaking about the cave Saptaparna, is mentioned Avalokiteshvara as "the silent voice" which remember us to The Voice of the Silence. In the first fragment of that book, we find the method of hearing the seven sounds as in the Nadabindopanishat. However, the paralell does not ends here, in the first and second meetings of the Inner Group was taught the method using the sounds for reach states of conciousness. As we can see, it seems to be very much coincidence.</p>
<p>It could be made reference to a thread in this net in relation to Santmat and Theosophy (Santmat uses concentration on sounds as central practice).</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.theosophy.net/forum/topics/sant-mat-and-shabd-yoga?xg_source=activity">http://www.theosophy.net/forum/topics/sant-mat-and-shabd-yoga?xg_so...</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Quote of The Theosophist and Five Years of Theosophy:</p>
<p> <font face="Palatino Linotype" size="2">What are the six The six organs of sense. What are the five? The five elements of illusive being. And the <b>ONE</b> which is also ten ? He is a true Buddha who develops in him the ten forms of holiness and subjects them all to the one—’the silent voice’ (meaning Avolokiteswara).</font></p>