If the Occult Brotherhood founded most/all religions, are they actually good? - Theosophy.Net2024-03-29T06:58:15Zhttps://theosophy.net/forum/topics/if-the-occult-brotherhood-founded-most-all-religions-are-they-act?commentId=3055387%3AComment%3A113526&feed=yes&xn_auth=noSame point I was trying to ma…tag:theosophy.net,2012-07-31:3055387:Comment:1135752012-07-31T03:29:14.777ZDominiquehttps://theosophy.net/profile/Dominique
<p>Same point I was trying to make. I have also met many, and I heard the exact same thing. The ones I've talked to actually don't say anything in reply to my questions of esotericism, they seem puzzled, (as to say, this Westerner, what is he talking about it?) which is what I was trying to tell Patita. There are some distorted views that have to be dealt with before answering the question properly.</p>
<p>Same point I was trying to make. I have also met many, and I heard the exact same thing. The ones I've talked to actually don't say anything in reply to my questions of esotericism, they seem puzzled, (as to say, this Westerner, what is he talking about it?) which is what I was trying to tell Patita. There are some distorted views that have to be dealt with before answering the question properly.</p> He did alot worse than that.…tag:theosophy.net,2012-07-31:3055387:Comment:1137212012-07-31T03:23:20.119ZDominiquehttps://theosophy.net/profile/Dominique
<p>He did alot worse than that. You can't even really compare him to Genghis Khan. Plus, you have to consider these peoples positions in history. Conquering lands weren't always, if any at all, in defense. On the other hand, the patterns of thought and behavior exhibited by the mass of followers (the general population) of a particular religion should often give us a birds eye view of the working of the tradition on the minds of the follower, e.g., its structure, the feelings of grandeur, and…</p>
<p>He did alot worse than that. You can't even really compare him to Genghis Khan. Plus, you have to consider these peoples positions in history. Conquering lands weren't always, if any at all, in defense. On the other hand, the patterns of thought and behavior exhibited by the mass of followers (the general population) of a particular religion should often give us a birds eye view of the working of the tradition on the minds of the follower, e.g., its structure, the feelings of grandeur, and inferiority/superiority followers get from the text. Islam is <em>inherently</em> fundamentalist, the book is understood generally to be infallible, generally accepted literally that angels exist (not much room for interpretation), generally accepted Muhammad received the qur'an from an angel named Gabriel. The same is with Abraham, whether he existed or not, he is considered the patriarch father of the four Abrahamic traditions (i'm including Baha'i, because it considers itself to be apart of that loop). </p>
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<p><span>"One never hears of followers of Patanjali, Laozi, Mahavira, Buddha, and Classical Western philosophers carrying out tens of terror attacks daily, but followers of some Abrahamic religions do so, because of what their texts say or what they were taught."</span></p>
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<p><span>Very true indeed. I took classes on violence and religious texts actually. There may be a semantic problem in all this as well, i.e., outdated ways of logic, particularly in the rigid, and dual Aristotelian logic. The Abrahamic traditions exhibit this limited system of logic, read some of Alfred Korzybski's work. It shows difference in the thought processes of the Eastern traditions you speak of and the pattern of reasoning exhibited by that of those from the Abrahamic traditions which leads to such kind of thinking, and patterns of action. What I learned from the classes is that the texts, the language is vulnerable or open to infinite kinds of interpretation, not like a language of mathematics, or engineering. </span></p> a lot to answer to here..Poin…tag:theosophy.net,2012-07-31:3055387:Comment:1135732012-07-31T02:49:02.922ZJohnhttps://theosophy.net/profile/JohnEMead
<p>a lot to answer to here..<br></br>Points:<br></br>1. I used the phrase "major world religion" to limit myself to my personal knowledge base.<br></br>2. Paper with ink on it is not evil. What people do is the problem. Neither my Koran, Bible, Vedas etc. have had disputes on my bookcase. <br></br>3. Fundamentalism and "Literal" interpretation are a major problem. These texts have all been redacted and emended to greater or lesser degrees. The original meanings (words) are in doubt as well. Some are still…</p>
<p>a lot to answer to here..<br/>Points:<br/>1. I used the phrase "major world religion" to limit myself to my personal knowledge base.<br/>2. Paper with ink on it is not evil. What people do is the problem. Neither my Koran, Bible, Vedas etc. have had disputes on my bookcase. <br/>3. Fundamentalism and "Literal" interpretation are a major problem. These texts have all been redacted and emended to greater or lesser degrees. The original meanings (words) are in doubt as well. Some are still unknown as to what they mean. <br/><br/>I am unsure what to due with efforts like "The Parliament of World's religions"?? Ban the Abrahamic faiths?<br/><br/>To promote Brotherhood amongst Humanity, a prime theosophical goal, Abrahamic Religions must be brought together within the fold. Book burning never works.<br/><br/></p> Premise "P" is incorrect, or…tag:theosophy.net,2012-07-30:3055387:Comment:1134832012-07-30T15:02:02.704ZWes Amermanhttps://theosophy.net/profile/WesAmerman
<p>Premise "P" is incorrect, or is at best a misunderstanding of what Theosophy teaches.</p>
<p>Religions are always formed by followers, never by the Reformers who sought to correct the abuses and errors of existing religions.</p>
<p>It seems inevitable that the Great Teachers have to repeat their message again and again, because we humans continually forget just who and what we are -- spiritual beings. In the words of Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita, "I incarnate from age to age, for the…</p>
<p>Premise "P" is incorrect, or is at best a misunderstanding of what Theosophy teaches.</p>
<p>Religions are always formed by followers, never by the Reformers who sought to correct the abuses and errors of existing religions.</p>
<p>It seems inevitable that the Great Teachers have to repeat their message again and again, because we humans continually forget just who and what we are -- spiritual beings. In the words of Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita, "I incarnate from age to age, for the preservation of the just, the destruction of the wicked and the establishment of righteousness."</p> I have never seen any major w…tag:theosophy.net,2012-07-30:3055387:Comment:1136462012-07-30T14:33:28.396ZJohnhttps://theosophy.net/profile/JohnEMead
<p>I have never seen any major world religion as evil. It takes human-created organizations and specific individuals to create what we call evil.<br/><br/></p>
<p>I have never seen any major world religion as evil. It takes human-created organizations and specific individuals to create what we call evil.<br/><br/></p> Perhaps getting back on track…tag:theosophy.net,2012-07-30:3055387:Comment:1135662012-07-30T00:47:18.831ZJohnhttps://theosophy.net/profile/JohnEMead
<p>Perhaps getting back on track.... Let's try</p>
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<p>Premise P. Theosophy says the Occult Brotherhood founded most/all religions.<br/><br/>Premise Q. Religions are evil as they all have caused human strife and suffering.<br/><br/>Conclusion R. If, or since, the Occult Brotherhood founded them, the Occult Brotherhood is evil.<br/><br/></p>
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<p>Perhaps getting back on track.... Let's try</p>
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<p>Premise P. Theosophy says the Occult Brotherhood founded most/all religions.<br/><br/>Premise Q. Religions are evil as they all have caused human strife and suffering.<br/><br/>Conclusion R. If, or since, the Occult Brotherhood founded them, the Occult Brotherhood is evil.<br/><br/></p>
<p></p> those who know of karma, rebi…tag:theosophy.net,2012-07-29:3055387:Comment:1136402012-07-29T20:50:58.828ZDominiquehttps://theosophy.net/profile/Dominique
<p>those who know of karma, rebirth ect., are unfortunately a very very small minority in Islam, as to not even be there. I'm surprised when I find fans of say Rumi, e.g., who put such doctrines in his poems. ...O well</p>
<p>those who know of karma, rebirth ect., are unfortunately a very very small minority in Islam, as to not even be there. I'm surprised when I find fans of say Rumi, e.g., who put such doctrines in his poems. ...O well</p> And by the way: Mohamed i con…tag:theosophy.net,2012-07-27:3055387:Comment:1136302012-07-27T19:50:13.710ZPatita Dikshitahttps://theosophy.net/profile/PatitaDikshita
<p>And by the way: Mohamed i consider not an Avatar. Jesus was.........</p>
<p>Mohamed was passing by to be a messenger-yes.</p>
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<p>Om Patita</p>
<p>And by the way: Mohamed i consider not an Avatar. Jesus was.........</p>
<p>Mohamed was passing by to be a messenger-yes.</p>
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<p>Om Patita</p> tja Dominique...it is always…tag:theosophy.net,2012-07-27:3055387:Comment:1134052012-07-27T19:48:19.453ZPatita Dikshitahttps://theosophy.net/profile/PatitaDikshita
<p>tja Dominique...it is always the same old story. Even Buddha was teaching esoteric sciense with an small circle so Mohamed did.</p>
<p>They teaching were right-but look what the people did to them...</p>
<p>The key is the esoteric study.Than one will understand.....</p>
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<p>Om Patita.</p>
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<p>And: also from the Koran the doctrin from karma and rebirth was moved......</p>
<p>tja Dominique...it is always the same old story. Even Buddha was teaching esoteric sciense with an small circle so Mohamed did.</p>
<p>They teaching were right-but look what the people did to them...</p>
<p>The key is the esoteric study.Than one will understand.....</p>
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<p>Om Patita.</p>
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<p>And: also from the Koran the doctrin from karma and rebirth was moved......</p> This is not fully the case. S…tag:theosophy.net,2012-07-27:3055387:Comment:1136292012-07-27T19:28:28.357ZDominiquehttps://theosophy.net/profile/Dominique
<p>This is not fully the case. Some mention that Mohammad thought himself was the Kalki Avatar. Even if he didn't think that, some of his actions as a prophet is highly questionable. This idea that the Qur'an is often misinterpreted without the right key is partially bogus. I've talked to some Sufi teachers. They themselves deny this talk of <em>esotericism</em>, which they consider to be a Western adaptation of their traditions, sort of like puffing up the story and the mythology, some are…</p>
<p>This is not fully the case. Some mention that Mohammad thought himself was the Kalki Avatar. Even if he didn't think that, some of his actions as a prophet is highly questionable. This idea that the Qur'an is often misinterpreted without the right key is partially bogus. I've talked to some Sufi teachers. They themselves deny this talk of <em>esotericism</em>, which they consider to be a Western adaptation of their traditions, sort of like puffing up the story and the mythology, some are even puzzled when I question them. This right key to Qur'an is highly disputable. When Muslims read, the Qur'an is right IN THE FACE, interpretations depend on many factors, but also upon your insight, intuitive-perception. BUT, there are elements in the Qur'an that are completely questionable, esp. some of its blatant "scientific theories" which DO NOT have an esoteric right key, but are reflections of the Aristotelian out-dated science of their day. As a non-Muslim I can question those things which some HAVE to take entirely literally. Whether context or not, first Mohammad started out with a small band, or gnostic like circle, and seemed genuine, but later, he becomes like a mob boss! even showing times when he was probably lying about some of his revelations to the people, or altering them. What is this <em>right key</em> to Qur'an?</p>
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<p>This goes back to the reason of David's post. All these books are not perfect and infallible, and all are not carefully, tactically designed to be one side esoteric and the other exoteric, not all of them. They do come with errors you know, and right from their very beginnings. Just read all the passages Mohammad says in the Qur'an about the doctrines of the Christians. It is true, a religion can be built mostly upon misunderstandings of another tradition, thus there are many off-shoots, that may have been right for the time, but become ossified. Doesn't mean that religion is good, just that certain causes and circumstances led to its founding. The followers take the cue that their God must have permitted this to happen, or Providence. Now, how could Karma do such a thing? How could Naught permit anything, it is no Being or Entity. Somebody's lying to the people. Even if we had a "key" to the scriptures of the Abrahamic faiths, including Baha'i (which is neither perfect), will that help humanity fully? No, it wouldn't. Crazy how people imagine the "Occult Brotherhood" to be some nice hoppling tea-drinkers at a gathering of a nice dinner, with Jesus, Thor and everybody at the round table where every event in the world goes perfectly as planned!</p>