Ascended Masters, Archangels and the Hierarchy - Theosophy.Net2024-03-29T08:50:17Zhttps://theosophy.net/forum/topics/ascended-masters-archangels-and-the-hierarchy?commentId=3055387%3AComment%3A110384&feed=yes&xn_auth=no Yes, "brother" brings a diff…tag:theosophy.net,2012-03-29:3055387:Comment:1103842012-03-29T13:58:36.684ZFerran Sanz Orriolshttps://theosophy.net/profile/FerranSanzOrriols
<p> Yes, "brother" brings a different image than "Hierarch"... sometimes I call Joe "Hierarch of the site", so the Hierophant must surely be Anand. </p>
<p> Yes, "brother" brings a different image than "Hierarch"... sometimes I call Joe "Hierarch of the site", so the Hierophant must surely be Anand. </p> Hi, Andrasm!
Yes, the words…tag:theosophy.net,2012-03-29:3055387:Comment:1105092012-03-29T13:54:13.842ZFerran Sanz Orriolshttps://theosophy.net/profile/FerranSanzOrriols
<p> Hi, Andrasm!</p>
<p> Yes, the words are related, as hieroglyph, etc... ;-)</p>
<p> Hi, Andrasm!</p>
<p> Yes, the words are related, as hieroglyph, etc... ;-)</p> John,
They say all myth have…tag:theosophy.net,2012-03-29:3055387:Comment:1102002012-03-29T01:54:06.889Zandrasnmhttps://theosophy.net/profile/andrasnm
<p>John,</p>
<p>They say all myth have some solid foundation in facts....no matter how remote....</p>
<p>-A</p>
<p>John,</p>
<p>They say all myth have some solid foundation in facts....no matter how remote....</p>
<p>-A</p> I am thinking of a different…tag:theosophy.net,2012-03-29:3055387:Comment:1101992012-03-29T01:52:44.764Zandrasnmhttps://theosophy.net/profile/andrasnm
<p>I am thinking of a different kind of a <span>hierarchy. The one that the name <b>hierophant</b><span> is related....(very well possible that the words are not related :)</span></span></p>
<p>I am thinking of a different kind of a <span>hierarchy. The one that the name <b>hierophant</b><span> is related....(very well possible that the words are not related :)</span></span></p> Thanks for all the responses,…tag:theosophy.net,2012-03-28:3055387:Comment:1101042012-03-28T15:03:12.470Zandrasnmhttps://theosophy.net/profile/andrasnm
<p>Thanks for all the responses, the hierarchy as I understand is the same as the Elder Brothers, from theosophy. </p>
<p>Thanks for all the responses, the hierarchy as I understand is the same as the Elder Brothers, from theosophy. </p> Nature does build hierarchies…tag:theosophy.net,2012-03-26:3055387:Comment:1101792012-03-26T23:52:08.561ZJohnhttps://theosophy.net/profile/JohnEMead
<p>Nature does build hierarchies all the time. However - the point is it destroys them as fast. My body may appear as a nice working hierarchy now, but it will be dust in a relatively short time. In this sense Nature abhors hierarchy since any individual hierarchy will ultimately dissolve and randomize. Nature is a builder, but an incredible destroyer as well. Basically this is an inevitable effect of entropy. The sun adds energy (and is a huge low-entropy source) into our planet and allows…</p>
<p>Nature does build hierarchies all the time. However - the point is it destroys them as fast. My body may appear as a nice working hierarchy now, but it will be dust in a relatively short time. In this sense Nature abhors hierarchy since any individual hierarchy will ultimately dissolve and randomize. Nature is a builder, but an incredible destroyer as well. Basically this is an inevitable effect of entropy. The sun adds energy (and is a huge low-entropy source) into our planet and allows these structures to form, which then die and so new ones evolve. (Then the sun dies, sorry)</p>
<p>Nature loves evolution, and supports new evolvement in most all directions. New evolvement creates new structures which also destroy the other older structures (hierarchies).</p>
<p>Human beings are actually an interesting example of how hierarchies form but then destroy themselves. No human-formed hierarchy has survived over time. Governments last a few centuries and then self-destruct because of the inherent Nature of human beings. I want my hierarchy not yours <G>.</p>
<p>That is the direction I was coming from when mentioning Nature's disdain for hierarchy.</p>
<p>I should also point out that "as below, so above" is in (a part of) the hermetic law stated in The Emerald Table. So - I would say spiritual governments are probably unlikely. (that may liven the discussion some!!). Dione Fortune nearly said that in her book on Psychic-attacks. More or less a lot of flat structures working together. That is not a hierarchy in the sense used here. Coalitions never seem to last either.</p>
<p></p> Thanks Ferran.
Indeed the wor…tag:theosophy.net,2012-03-26:3055387:Comment:1103422012-03-26T11:33:12.383ZCapt. Anand Kumarhttps://theosophy.net/profile/CaptAnandKumar
<p>Thanks Ferran.</p>
<p>Indeed the word "Hierarchy" brings up the image of a pyramid structure to the mind. And so it does to a large number of people. Words do have different connotations to different people but its commonly used perception is that of pyramid type structure in our day to day life.</p>
<p>John Mead has given example of how nature does not support Hierarchy and that is why the link was included.</p>
<p>Dan has explained well how interconnected systems within the body function…</p>
<p>Thanks Ferran.</p>
<p>Indeed the word "Hierarchy" brings up the image of a pyramid structure to the mind. And so it does to a large number of people. Words do have different connotations to different people but its commonly used perception is that of pyramid type structure in our day to day life.</p>
<p>John Mead has given example of how nature does not support Hierarchy and that is why the link was included.</p>
<p>Dan has explained well how interconnected systems within the body function as a whole. That arrangement is perfect but is not Hierarchical, as one component complements another. In a Hierarchical structure one component oversees another.</p>
<p></p> Ferran,
I loved your post!…tag:theosophy.net,2012-03-25:3055387:Comment:1102662012-03-25T14:36:24.203ZDaniel Nogahttps://theosophy.net/profile/DanielNoga
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<p>Ferran,</p>
<p></p>
<p>I loved your post! I found myself cheering you on as I read it. Beautiful, you are really neat.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Ferran,</p>
<p></p>
<p>I loved your post! I found myself cheering you on as I read it. Beautiful, you are really neat.</p> Hi, friends!!!
grrrbrrrrr .…tag:theosophy.net,2012-03-25:3055387:Comment:1101692012-03-25T14:18:54.360ZFerran Sanz Orriolshttps://theosophy.net/profile/FerranSanzOrriols
<p> Hi, friends!!!</p>
<p> grrrbrrrrr ... in a most dangerous mood today so if the admins must delete what I'll write, let them do so... why don't people allow themselves some room for understanding before accepting or rejecting?</p>
<p> Sorry, but my opinion that capital letters do create misunderstanding is stronger now than 15 minutes ago.</p>
<p> Andrasm, from what you've written the aim of the thread is not clear to me... is it about "Hierarchy" or is it about the possiblity of anyone…</p>
<p> Hi, friends!!!</p>
<p> grrrbrrrrr ... in a most dangerous mood today so if the admins must delete what I'll write, let them do so... why don't people allow themselves some room for understanding before accepting or rejecting?</p>
<p> Sorry, but my opinion that capital letters do create misunderstanding is stronger now than 15 minutes ago.</p>
<p> Andrasm, from what you've written the aim of the thread is not clear to me... is it about "Hierarchy" or is it about the possiblity of anyone being beyond faltering and making bad decisions? Why would I think that any "Archangel" or whoever is beyond making a bad decision?</p>
<p> I'm against the idea and ideal of perfection because I see it harms, it is an obstacle to clear thinking in our situation. As an ideal its effect is frustration, because we all are everything but "ideal"; and as an idea it is useless, because it means "finished", utterly complete: a corpse, in human terms.</p>
<p> I make mistakes everyday, it's my only chance of learning in this world.</p>
<p> We humans are the custodians of Mother Earth... and I am ashamed of our behaviour... deeply ashamed. </p>
<p> Duane, I'm sorry but I don't think a quote from "A Treatise on Cosmic Fire" is of any help here.</p>
<p> Anand, you take "Hierarchy" with the capital letters and quote John... but I don't see any explanation, just an statement about abhorrement... now, why do you write about "great" individuals and then deny any "Hierarchy"? ... you've already made one when you say that some individuals are "great"... I will not tolerate you placing yourself lower than any Buddha or Christ... I say that any individual can be called "great", taking "individual" as "undivided", that is, a wholesome human being. </p>
<p> Why do people read the word "Hierarchy" and then the image of a pyramid comes to their minds? </p>
<p> Daniel, no "new theosophies" to discover... I understand theosophy as ageless wisdom that comes from the soul. It belongs to everyone and it is up to everyone to decide to listen to the soul today, or to let it for any "tomorrow" or any imagined circumstance in which it'll be "easier".</p>
<p> John, HPB wrote that the best black sorcerers and demon channelers are church ministers, so nothing new under the Sun... anyway, I am really fond of destructive archetipes like Lord Shiva and Lady Kali.</p>
<p> Well, I don't understand your idea of "useful", I don't understand why to mix "solid reasons" and "believe", I need solid reasons to ACCEPT the ideas that I do dislike (which are many), and I keep on disbelieving.</p>
<p> I've never been able to understand this "believe/disbelieve" issue, it's really strange to me. I tried to when I was younger, and now I'm tired.</p>
<p> Hierarchy is the way nature works, but I prefer not to use this once holy word, because it has suffered much abuse.</p>
<p> Can anyone of us produce his/her own air? So we all depend upon the one who provides us with air.... has this planet the energy to evolve an ecosystem on its own? It seems not, since plants rely on the energy from the Sun, so we all depend on the Sun...</p>
<p> Has anyone learnt English language by himself? Are teachers respected? Are teachers aware of the sacredness of the art of teaching? Is there anyone willing to learn?</p>
<p> ... well, I've succeeded in avoiding bad language ,so I don't think it'll be deleted.... </p>
<p> </p> It's a good question that's…tag:theosophy.net,2012-03-25:3055387:Comment:1102632012-03-25T06:37:51.828ZDaniel Nogahttps://theosophy.net/profile/DanielNoga
<p></p>
<p>It's a good question that's raised here, and an analogy has come to mind spurred on by the comments of John and Anand above.</p>
<p>There actually is an order in nature that can easily appear hierarchical, especially in the sense of a nested hierarchy. This can be seen in our own bodies, which are made up millions of smaller living units, cells--which in turn are made up of smaller units, the organelles, and so on. To look at this all from a viewpoint that favors a hierarchical…</p>
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<p>It's a good question that's raised here, and an analogy has come to mind spurred on by the comments of John and Anand above.</p>
<p>There actually is an order in nature that can easily appear hierarchical, especially in the sense of a nested hierarchy. This can be seen in our own bodies, which are made up millions of smaller living units, cells--which in turn are made up of smaller units, the organelles, and so on. To look at this all from a viewpoint that favors a hierarchical interpretation, those units that encompass many smaller units are seen to be "higher" on that hierarchy. To these "higher" units is attributed a more "advanced" place in the evolutionary scheme, and it is from this assignment of value or "rank" that the idea arises in the first place that vast spiritual intelligences must surely be infallible, as advanced as they are beyond us.</p>
<p>But using the very analogy of the order of cells in the human body sheds some light on this. The human body is an amazing thing, with a beautiful harmony going on that keeps it running. All these smaller life-units work together in harmony, for the most part, without our conscious intervention. Still, there is sickness--and furthermore, we are coming to learn that many health problems and dysfunctions, our name for disharmonies that arise in the bodily system, are connected to our own decisions and actions. We are capable of totally ruining that wonderful harmony through our own faulty decisions. Why should it be any different with spiritual beings whose field of influence may happen to encompass realms greater than us? (I respect John's viewpoint on the matter, that these great beings may be mere myths, but I tend to provisionally accept the possibility of their existence, with the caveat that our understanding of what they are and what they do cannot be that accurate since by our own admission we function on a totally different level than they do. Does a blood cell know anything about being a human?).</p>
<p>Furthermore, in our field of interaction with other human beings and towards the larger "organism" of which we are a part, things are far from perfect. Look at the world around us! We are causing mischief on a scale so much wider than the scope of a single-celled organism's field of activity that it boggles even our minds. Clearly the idea that larger centers of consciousness are necessarily less fallible than smaller ones needs revision.</p>
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