The OccupyWallSt movement: The general moment of enlightement? - Theosophy.Net2024-03-28T21:30:46Zhttps://theosophy.net/forum/topics/the-occupywallst-movement-the-general-moment-of-enlightement?id=3055387%3ATopic%3A82752&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI've been dealing with credit…tag:theosophy.net,2011-11-03:3055387:Comment:852522011-11-03T04:04:07.509ZArthur E Gregoryhttps://theosophy.net/profile/ArthurEGregory
<p>I've been dealing with credit unions for quite awhile now.. The only thing is some seem more able to serve than others. I was trying to set up a trust and one C.U. I'd been doing business with wasn't able to really respond to our needs but another one was no problem. so it depends.. The interest rates are usually lower on loans. But again they can vary in their actual services. The one we deal with is very personable and helpful.. The other was standoffish and impersonal. </p>
<p>I've also…</p>
<p>I've been dealing with credit unions for quite awhile now.. The only thing is some seem more able to serve than others. I was trying to set up a trust and one C.U. I'd been doing business with wasn't able to really respond to our needs but another one was no problem. so it depends.. The interest rates are usually lower on loans. But again they can vary in their actual services. The one we deal with is very personable and helpful.. The other was standoffish and impersonal. </p>
<p>I've also decided I'm only going to deal with businesses that are more personable..Auto dealers, dentists, markets ..you name it..if they don't give a hoot about me I could care less..I go where the service is.</p> I am waiting for or would lik…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-28:3055387:Comment:849132011-10-28T07:56:09.234ZArthur E Gregoryhttps://theosophy.net/profile/ArthurEGregory
I am waiting for or would like to see a more internally disciplined rank and file similar to what was seen in the Satyagraha movement in India... there needs to be a commitment to nonviolent principles such as not insulting or deriding people thus polarizing them and causing greater likelihood for violence. A demonstration needs to have cohesion as to the message without hostility and vehemence.
I am waiting for or would like to see a more internally disciplined rank and file similar to what was seen in the Satyagraha movement in India... there needs to be a commitment to nonviolent principles such as not insulting or deriding people thus polarizing them and causing greater likelihood for violence. A demonstration needs to have cohesion as to the message without hostility and vehemence. There is so much going on in…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-27:3055387:Comment:843562011-10-27T20:38:53.570ZCecelia Furmanhttps://theosophy.net/profile/CeceliaFurman
<p>There is so much going on in this thread, just as there is so much going on at the 'occupy' sites, and it is wonderful to read/see it all. It is especially good that there have not been 'demands' as yet because this indicates that groups are sifting through many and varied concerns, reviewing and considering all ideas as they arise or as they are presented. This is evolution in action, happening simultaneously, in many different communities with an amazing spirit of inclusion. But religion…</p>
<p>There is so much going on in this thread, just as there is so much going on at the 'occupy' sites, and it is wonderful to read/see it all. It is especially good that there have not been 'demands' as yet because this indicates that groups are sifting through many and varied concerns, reviewing and considering all ideas as they arise or as they are presented. This is evolution in action, happening simultaneously, in many different communities with an amazing spirit of inclusion. But religion tends to divide and talk of spiritual concerns sounds like talk of religion. It seems to me that this is why we aren't hearing more of the philosophic side of this and perhaps this recognizes a sensitivity to diversity of belief rather than an omission of spirit, a way to maintain peace among the gatherers.</p>
<p>And it has been peaceful- until last night when the 'Kent State' -predicted earlier in this discussion- occurred in Oakland,Ca. A young man (24 yrs) suffered a head injury from an apparent assault by Police. There is a big difference between the way the crowd has been handled in Oakland and in, for example, Albany, NY. In Albany the administration views the gathering as a group of citizens using their voice. The Oakland administration obviously views the crowd as 'other', as a an oppositional force to be crushed. </p>
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<p>This maybe a turning point. In Albany there continues to be peace; Oakland faces a crowd more determined than ever to express themselves and their sorrow with vigils and in gathering for further protest. Will shadow elements turn them toward reactionary violence? Or will 'better natures' prevail?</p> The 'priests' are gonna be le…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-19:3055387:Comment:830562011-10-19T04:50:31.890ZEstrellaFugazhttps://theosophy.net/profile/EstrellaFugaz
<p>The 'priests' are gonna be left behind.... u.u sorry soo sorry...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The Cenit is really the Nadir.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Cheers Joe. good point. :-)</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p><cite>Joe Fulton said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://theosnet.ning.com/forum/topics/the-occupywallst-movement-the-general-moment-of-enlightement#3055387Comment82865"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><br></br><p>We really need to look at this whole thing in the sense of a spiritual situation. On our Facebook…</p>
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<p>The 'priests' are gonna be left behind.... u.u sorry soo sorry...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The Cenit is really the Nadir.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Cheers Joe. good point. :-)</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p><cite>Joe Fulton said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://theosnet.ning.com/forum/topics/the-occupywallst-movement-the-general-moment-of-enlightement#3055387Comment82865"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><br/><p>We really need to look at this whole thing in the sense of a spiritual situation. On our Facebook group, a poster expressed:</p>
<p><span class="messageBody translationEligibleUserMessage">"<em>As the high priests of present civilization (bankers and money investors) worry about their own papers, the planet undergoes its changes, and more citizens begin to awaken to a planetary ethics and consciousness.</em>"</span></p>
<p><span class="messageBody translationEligibleUserMessage">Well said.</span></p>
<p><span class="messageBody translationEligibleUserMessage">Your thoughts, anyone?<br/></span></p>
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</blockquote> Yep, that's what's missing...…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-19:3055387:Comment:832402011-10-19T04:45:10.685ZEstrellaFugazhttps://theosophy.net/profile/EstrellaFugaz
<p>Yep, that's what's missing...</p>
<p><br></br>Cheers</p>
<p> </p>
<p><cite>Joe Fulton said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://theosnet.ning.com/forum/topics/the-occupywallst-movement-the-general-moment-of-enlightement#3055387Comment82865"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>What amazes me, Michael, at least in this forum is the <span style="text-decoration: underline;">lack of tying together spiritual concepts with current action.</span></p>
<p>For example, the most important concept in…</p>
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<p>Yep, that's what's missing...</p>
<p><br/>Cheers</p>
<p> </p>
<p><cite>Joe Fulton said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://theosnet.ning.com/forum/topics/the-occupywallst-movement-the-general-moment-of-enlightement#3055387Comment82865"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>What amazes me, Michael, at least in this forum is the <span style="text-decoration: underline;">lack of tying together spiritual concepts with current action.</span></p>
<p>For example, the most important concept in esoteric study is that of order. We live in an existence that, at its root is orderly, and that as a result our actions should be based in harmony with this order. Part of this concept of order is that of heirarchy, and that we all have our places in the larger scheme of existence, and that this means that we have rights and responsibilities that are dictated by our place in the hierarchy of being. </p>
<p>In this sense, it seems that 'older' theosophist types, such as HPB was nearly silent, while later commentators, such as Alice Bailey said a great deal and went a long way towards openly promoting structures that they felt would alleviate pain and suffering.</p>
<p>We really need to look at this whole thing in the sense of a spiritual situation. On our Facebook group, a poster expressed:</p>
<p><span class="messageBody translationEligibleUserMessage">"<em>As the high priests of present civilization (bankers and money investors) worry about their own papers, the planet undergoes its changes, and more citizens begin to awaken to a planetary ethics and consciousness.</em>"</span></p>
<p><span class="messageBody translationEligibleUserMessage">Well said.</span></p>
<p><span class="messageBody translationEligibleUserMessage">Your thoughts, anyone?<br/></span></p>
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</blockquote> Yes, pretty sure is not a co…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-19:3055387:Comment:832382011-10-19T01:19:43.672ZEstrellaFugazhttps://theosophy.net/profile/EstrellaFugaz
<p><br></br> Yes, pretty sure is not a coincidence. Maybe the masters (WHO's behind Assange, anyway? never wondered that?) are aware of that.... :O</p>
<p><br></br> <cite>Capt. Anand Kumar said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://theosnet.ning.com/forum/topics/the-occupywallst-movement-the-general-moment-of-enlightement#3055387Comment82588"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Besides Rome, there have been protests in other European cities as well, Vienna, berlin, Zurich to name a few. People are…</p>
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<p><br/> Yes, pretty sure is not a coincidence. Maybe the masters (WHO's behind Assange, anyway? never wondered that?) are aware of that.... :O</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Capt. Anand Kumar said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://theosnet.ning.com/forum/topics/the-occupywallst-movement-the-general-moment-of-enlightement#3055387Comment82588"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Besides Rome, there have been protests in other European cities as well, Vienna, berlin, Zurich to name a few. People are chanting "We are the 99 percent" and "We will not bail you out again". Think of the riots in England this summer and some reports mentioning riots in China too.</p>
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<p>Is there a connection or is it just spontaneous and temporary?</p>
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</blockquote> Yes, agree with Kaptain Kumar…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-18:3055387:Comment:832312011-10-18T21:39:14.298ZEstrellaFugazhttps://theosophy.net/profile/EstrellaFugaz
<p>Yes, agree with Kaptain Kumar at these points.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
<p>:-)</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p><cite>Capt. Anand Kumar said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://theosnet.ning.com/forum/topics/the-occupywallst-movement-the-general-moment-of-enlightement?commentId=3055387%3AComment%3A82758&xg_source=msg_com_forum#3055387Comment82848"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Thank You Michael. Your questions are pertinent.</p>
<p>The chief question that I asked myself was why did…</p>
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<p>Yes, agree with Kaptain Kumar at these points.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
<p>:-)</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p><cite>Capt. Anand Kumar said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://theosnet.ning.com/forum/topics/the-occupywallst-movement-the-general-moment-of-enlightement?commentId=3055387%3AComment%3A82758&xg_source=msg_com_forum#3055387Comment82848"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Thank You Michael. Your questions are pertinent.</p>
<p>The chief question that I asked myself was why did the people not protest 5 or 10 years earlier. The answer is self evident - they were not suffering economically. It is only when they are affected directly that these protests are becoming evident. So, the solution should be easy, give economic prosperity to the people and they will forget about the protest. However, that is easier said than done. If it was possible to do within the existing framework, governments worldwide would have done it already.</p>
<p>The greed of the few brought about this economic crisis world wide. But were we, the ordinary people not part of that greed? Did we not enjoy our artificail prosperity built on the same greed? If we are coming to the streets now to protest, I hope it will dawn on some of us that any greed based system is bound to lead to such situations and therefore more equitable distribution of available resources must be considered. This realisation by the common people is what gives me hope.</p>
<p>Currently the protests in the US are spontaneous reaction but eventually a leadership will emerge with an agenda. The same process happened in India, where such spontaneous protests eventually brought to the fore a 74 years old man Anna Hazare who fasted for 13 days to build up the mass movement against corruption. He and his core team is currently under severe attack from politicians and the mass media but the attackers know that they are fighting a losing battle and eventually will have to give in. I am sure similar attempts to divert the public attention from the main issues will take place in the US too.</p>
<p><strong>The fact that we, from different continents and backgrounds are discussing this topic in a theosophical forum, itself is a pointer that a <span style="text-decoration: underline;">shift towards spirituality has begun</span>. The process may be slow, be reversed inetrmittently and take <span style="text-decoration: underline;">several decades</span> to fully establish itself, but <span style="text-decoration: underline;">it is there.</span></strong></p>
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</blockquote> I don't think, Capt., that we…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-17:3055387:Comment:827062011-10-17T04:13:41.008ZMichael A. Williamshttps://theosophy.net/profile/MichaelAWilliams
<p>I don't think, Capt., that we can only point the finger at "spirituality" as the prime cause for the present "Occupy Wall Street" demonstrations and economic and social problems connected with it. I would certainly agree that "organized religion," East and West, has committed many egregious acts of inhumanity in the name of "God," "religion" and"spirituality" that have obviously been counter-productive and many times despicable. </p>
<p>"Unity" is a hard term to define exactly. Many people…</p>
<p>I don't think, Capt., that we can only point the finger at "spirituality" as the prime cause for the present "Occupy Wall Street" demonstrations and economic and social problems connected with it. I would certainly agree that "organized religion," East and West, has committed many egregious acts of inhumanity in the name of "God," "religion" and"spirituality" that have obviously been counter-productive and many times despicable. </p>
<p>"Unity" is a hard term to define exactly. Many people have many definitions. As for "Compassion" and "Love," you are right in naming them universal qualities that should be attendant in all spiritual and metaphysical paths. Individuals have to find these on their own, I don't think any organization can impose or instill them in anyone.</p>
<p>In my view, "atheistic materialism," in all its forms, has done much more to bring about the problems we see in the collective than anything spirituality may have done or not done.</p>
<p>Anyway, I'll close off. I would still like to hear from more folks out there on all this.</p> Historically, spirituality ha…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-17:3055387:Comment:828662011-10-17T02:16:19.977ZCapt. Anand Kumarhttps://theosophy.net/profile/CaptAnandKumar
<p>Historically, spirituality has not had much success in reforming the humanity's pursuit of narrow self-interests or Greed, irrespective of what the tribal loyalty principle compels the spiritualists to proclaim.</p>
<p>One of the chief reasons for this has been that spirituality itself strayed from its path of UNITY, COMPASSION, LOVE and branched into fatalism, prophecies, secrets, powers (Sidhis), magic, worship etc. which are designed to pursue those same narrow self-interests. Anything…</p>
<p>Historically, spirituality has not had much success in reforming the humanity's pursuit of narrow self-interests or Greed, irrespective of what the tribal loyalty principle compels the spiritualists to proclaim.</p>
<p>One of the chief reasons for this has been that spirituality itself strayed from its path of UNITY, COMPASSION, LOVE and branched into fatalism, prophecies, secrets, powers (Sidhis), magic, worship etc. which are designed to pursue those same narrow self-interests. Anything that could be sold in the name of spirituality has been sold.</p>
<p>It is really up to the spiritualists to determine whether they want to reamin relevant.</p> Thanks, Dominiq, but I don't…tag:theosophy.net,2011-10-17:3055387:Comment:825972011-10-17T01:01:30.072ZMichael A. Williamshttps://theosophy.net/profile/MichaelAWilliams
<p>Thanks, Dominiq, but I don't see how Dr. Ron Paul can get much traction in this movement. His extreme Libertarian ideas include getting rid of almost all regulations of corporations. A sure fire way to get us more into a new "Robber Baron" age. Of course, he denies it will. I'm not aware of his ideas on Wall St., but he for getting rid of the Fed Reserve. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, as economists seem divided on that(as they are on about every economic issue.)</p>
<p>I do agree with…</p>
<p>Thanks, Dominiq, but I don't see how Dr. Ron Paul can get much traction in this movement. His extreme Libertarian ideas include getting rid of almost all regulations of corporations. A sure fire way to get us more into a new "Robber Baron" age. Of course, he denies it will. I'm not aware of his ideas on Wall St., but he for getting rid of the Fed Reserve. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, as economists seem divided on that(as they are on about every economic issue.)</p>
<p>I do agree with him on stopping all this Military Adventurism abroad - and for every other country to stop theirs, too. I'm on the side that says it was the insane Iraq War costing Trillions of borrowed dollars that got the U.S. into our fiscal mess more than the real estate crisis. But, I'm sure others will argue otherwise.</p>
<p>I'm surprised that more members haven't chimed in on this topic. I'm interested in hearing about how various religious and spiritual groups around the world are viewing all these demonstrations. Most seems to be taking a "wait and see" attitude. Maybe I'm wrong.</p>
<p>One thing to me seem true, that if there is not a widespread change in enough people's hearts and minds to a higher state of consciousness, no amount of reform will last long.</p>